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[Book Spoilers]Mockingbird's grin.


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#21 kevinbgwrites

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:34 PM

The only way I could see a scenario unfolding with Tywin finding out who she really is would be him maybe locking her up to take her to King's Landing and her using her last Jaquen death wish to escape herself as opposed to freeing Northmen.

Pretty much what I meant. Whether its to take her himself or not. The fact that he's expressed to her his love for Jaime might make that fairly plausible.

#22 ghost the direwolf

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:47 PM

has he even met Arya before. I cannot remember him meeting her in season 1 or in the book.

#23 Blangadanger

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:31 PM

It's getting more and more difficult to figure out if Tywin is asking his questions of Arya because he knows something or simply to amuse the tv viewers by the tension in the scene. I can't figure out if he's trying to trip her up by the questions, or whether he already knows the answer and just gets amusement from her lies.

In terms of LF, I think his acknowledgement (assuming it happened) that Arya is in Harrenhal puts him in quite a bind. First, he's trying to work out a trade (an already uneven one made worse by having only one of the daughters) to free Jaime in order to gain favor with just about everyone. Second, simply telling Tywin that Arya has been spying on him all this time could prove dangerous for both Arya and himself. Thirdly he cherishes knowledge, particularly secret knowledge, above all else. Because nearly everyone in KL thinks Arya must be dead by now, LF suddenly has immense power in this situation. Perhaps they let tv-LF be the one who works out the marriage arrangements with Roose and/or Ramsay (who he can meet later in the show), since he can be the one to tell Roose exactly where she was seen last. In any case, I'm guessing LF will play his next step very carefully.

What's more urgent, in my opinion, is how Tywin reacts to the dead man lying on his floor. When he yells out "Guard!" I didn't get the impression that he was particularly calm with his current prospects. I assume he would immediately suspect his cupbearer since Lorch is holding the letter in his hands. Plus it's obviously an assassination rather than an accident, so he may feel his life is threatened (something I don't think he feels at all in the books). How he responds is very much up in the air for me, since it's still not clear what he knows about Arya.

#24 Xtopher

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:32 PM

LF is using Quick-Travel, havent you ever played Fallout of The Elder Scrolls?

...and now that Arya knows LF knows its her, why wouldnt she name him to Jaqen for the final death?
She´s not stupid, now they are forcing her to make that call, its gonna be awful, how are the producers gonna NOT-kill LF now?

Edited by Xtopher, 07 May 2012 - 03:34 PM.


#25 bikie

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:47 PM

I didn't for a moment think he didn't recognize her... thought the scene, in a heavy handed way, screamed that he recognized her and we are to assume he immediately recognized a more advantageous reason for keeping it from tywin...

#26 Trinket2

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:22 PM

LF definitely knows. I thought it was pretty obvious that he recognized her, actually.

I'm still uncertain about whether Tywin suspects who she is, though. I'm thinking he does, and that he will somehow be involved in negotiating Jaime's release.
I'm still hoping the whole note thing was a trick, I don't want to think that Tywin leaves important battle plans on notes on a table which is cleared by the cupbearer with the mysterious past, who was picked from the prisoners and who he knows can read.

#27 The Monkey

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:13 PM

LF definitely knows. I thought it was pretty obvious that he recognized her, actually.

I'm still uncertain about whether Tywin suspects who she is, though. I'm thinking he does, and that he will somehow be involved in negotiating Jaime's release.
I'm still hoping the whole note thing was a trick, I don't want to think that Tywin leaves important battle plans on notes on a table which is cleared by the cupbearer with the mysterious past, who was picked from the prisoners and who he knows can read.

The "battle plans" were concerning Robb's army movements, not his own. It's thus of little importance if that information should leak. I suppose Arya or someone else could inform Robb that Tywin knows of his movements, but I hardly think Robb expects the movement of his entire army to be kept a secret.

I do hope that that they touch upon the fact that Tywin must suspect Arya of taking the note, as she was the last one in the room.

Again, I'm intrigued by how they will develop this new sub-plot that LF knows of Arya's whereabouts. They must have something planned, as this is probably the reason they had LF to go to Harrenhall in the first place.

#28 jarl the climber

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:49 PM

I think people are making to big of a deal out of the speed at which Littlefinger is moving, Cat made tracks to Robbs army pretty quickly as well and that is even further than Harrenhal, it probaly took him a month to get their. \

I have to watch the scene again, it wasn't clear to me that he could tell it was her. They met at the tourney in the first season. She insolently asked why they call him Littlefinger.

In Ep.1 S.2 Caersei threatened to kill him if he did not find her I beleive.

#29 Envie

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:47 PM

btw, does LF have a magic portal device, quick travel, or some magical unicorn he rides all around Westeros?


I was thinking this same exact thing!!!

It took weeks for most 'normal' Westerosi to get from one part of the map to the other, but apparently Littlefinger either has mockingbird wings (hey maybe he knows Catniss!) or a magic carpet as fast as he's moving around the damn kingdom...sheez!


As for did he recognize Ayra... possibly. I think they are going to leave that open ended as a nod to television fans, but won't have it acted out in later episodes as it would alter the storyline far too much since A) Littlefinger was never there to speak to Tywin in the books that way, and B ) Arya can't be "discovered" before she gets away from Harrenhal anyways or forever change the direction her story goes unless she gets discovered and then escapes anyways I suppose.

Edited by Envie, 07 May 2012 - 07:02 PM.


#30 Lord Martin

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:34 PM

A long time went by between episodes 5 and 6. Ser Rodrick traveled from Winterfell to Torhenn's Square and back. Cat made it from Storm's End to the Golden Tooth. So it would be easy for Baelish to make the trip.

#31 dragon_fire

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:52 PM

I don't think LF has recognized Arya YET...I think she seems familiar to him, but he can't quite put his finger on it...(sorry,couldn't resist :-P)
Also he was too concentrated on his convo with Tywin who was giving him a hard time. I think LF will realise who the cupbearer was AFTER leaving the Harrenhal...(if nothing more, for the dramatic effect this TV series seem to enjoy so much )...thus leaving Arya out of his reach.

#32 Liathano

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:12 AM

My assumption has been that it's all just trickery on the part of HBO to keep you on the edge of your seat. It just doesn't work if he knows who she is.

#33 boojam

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:34 AM

has he even met Arya before. I cannot remember him meeting her in season 1 or in the book.


Yes explicitly at the first day of the tourney, so far back I can't remember in the book.
She did look a little different in KL than now ... clothes , hair and she has aged a little.


#34 boojam

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:47 AM

My assumption has been that it's all just trickery on the part of HBO to keep you on the edge of your seat. It just doesn't work if he knows who she is.


We should really have an note around here that when people say HBO they really mean David Benioff and D. B. Weiss.

#35 legba11

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:23 AM

He knows who she is, it is very obvious and if it's not true then the direction of the scene is very dishonest. His reactions and comment make no sense if he doesn't see her. I watched the episode with two non-book people last night, so I asked them, people who have no bias on this.
1: "Of course he saw her, you are a moron if you don't see that." (She was thinking I meant me)
2. "Its slightly more obvious than that the Mountain's horse is dead." (Interesting, he must have accessed the information of when they met on screen)

#36 Spidey

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:12 AM

Whether or not he recognized her is pretty much irrelevant. For now, he's traveling to Highgarden in order to conduct negotiations on Tywin's behalf. At the time he gets back from that, Arya will already have fled Harrenhal, disappearing once again.

#37 Tadco26

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

I wouldn't assume anything based on what happens in the books after the death of Irri and the stealing of the dragon eggs. Who knows what other "improvements" the writers will have to surprise us with. It's not like Arya's story has been particularly close to the books in Harrenhal to this point anyway. It certainly seemed like Littlefinger recognized her, and if not he sure was curious about the cupbearer, and his facial expressions made little sense.

#38 legba11

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:26 AM

Likely nothing will come of it right away. He will attempt to get a hold of her at some point, but either she will evade capture or the whole Weasel Soup Revolution will stymie any possible plays he has at her.

He does know she is alive though and that will continue to have some importance.

#39 Morvran

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:54 PM

All I know is that I have no idea what Tywin and Littlefinger talked about because I spent the whole time studying Littlefingers eyes and expressions and Arya's apprehension. I honestly couldn't tell you one thing that was actually talked about. HBO has done that a few times, particularly during a few sex scenes. This isn't exactly a show where they can afford to have their audience miss details so easily.

And yes, I agree that he clued in to Arya's identity. At the least she raised some of his hairs.

#40 Morrigan

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 02:30 PM

I think people are making to big of a deal out of the speed at which Littlefinger is moving, Cat made tracks to Robbs army pretty quickly as well and that is even further than Harrenhal, it probaly took him a month to get their. \

FWIW I didn't like Catelyn's teleporting either...

In Ep.1 S.2 Caersei threatened to kill him if he did not find her I beleive.

Really? I don't recall that.

All I know is that I have no idea what Tywin and Littlefinger talked about because I spent the whole time studying Littlefingers eyes and expressions and Arya's apprehension. I honestly couldn't tell you one thing that was actually talked about. HBO has done that a few times, particularly during a few sex scenes. This isn't exactly a show where they can afford to have their audience miss details so easily.

Agreed. They often have scenes that are too distracting like that.

As for LF... if he recognized her it will throw Arya's storyline into complete disarray. I was hoping that his face was just "wait, have I seen her before? she looks familiar...", but maybe on a re-watch I'd notice his eyes lighting up in recognition, I dunno... Whatever happens with that, though, I just hope against hope that we'll still get the weasel soup scene, otherwise I'll be mad.