[Book Spoilers] Sir Rodrick

[WolveseatDragons]

So there is one glaring gap that seems to have been overlooked with Sir Rodrick. He left Winterfell with 200 men in the show (600 in the books) and the whole reason that Theon is able to take Winterfell is he gets around them. Then suddenly he just ends up captured by himself? WTF? What about the 200 men he had with him that would have easily overwhelmed the handful that Theon had? Then it is also mentioned in the message to Robb that Rodrick was killed but how could that have been known since Luwin sent the Raven before it happened?

Very clumsy writing.

[Crown]

Luwin was ordered to send more ravens after Rodrik's death.

[SerMixalot]

to tell the world he killed Ser Rodrik? WHY

[Arkash]

Luwin didnt tell Theon what he put in those messages...

[Don't_call_me_Ser]

Got to agree that i'm confused as to where all the men have gone?

Theon could easily have ordered word to be sent to the other local towns of Roderick's death as a warning of "don't try anything, we're hard, look what we did" sort of thing?

But the missing men is a puzzle.

[Robb_]

They said he was caught coming back from Torrhen's Square, the guess would be that he and his 200 men lost the battle and the few that survived were ambushed/killed on the way back.

[SynthFG]

Well he's taking the part of Ser Benifer? and his wild hares,

At a guess he left most of his 200 at Torens square chasing down raiders and was returning with a small party to Winterfel when he was ambushed

[bloodymime]

Perhaps he left the men at Torrhen's Square to reinforce it. Why go to the trouble of taking it back just to leave it undefended again.

[tfoxx22]

I noticed this too. But even if Rodrik was only returning with a handful of men i believe (but may be wrong) that Theon only had one ship of men and clearly most of them were in Winterfell when Rodrik was captured so i feel like it would have been pretty difficult to capture him. Other than that i really liked the scene and thought it was pretty well done.

[Envie]

I think overlooking the fact Rodrik had 200 men is easier for me than the dramatic change they made in having Theon hack his head off. I'm still coping with that gut wrenching stunner myself.

Overall I'm ok with the change, but man... its getting hard to keep everything straight.

[Monk Meth-]

Made rodrick look like a lesser man..

[Moose2949]

In the book Theon had 8 ships, but in the series he had just 1 ship. Just a guess but I would say he had about 50-80 men at the most with that one ship. Which is enough to threaten Torrhens Square and then slip by and snag Winterfell, but hardly enough to take out a few hundred men who know they are there. In the scene in episode 205 where Ser Rodrik asks for men to help TS they pretty much spell out that he is picking Winterfell clean. Which is obvious from the dialogue in the scene itself, and the fact that Theon took Winterfell with a handful of men. Doesn't it seem logical that Ser Rodrik would bring some of those men back? If he destroyed the Ironmen at TS, then he would assume there was no threat or a minimal threat left and take men back. Maybe he would leave a small number at TS, and take the rest back to Winterfell. If he got there and they slipped away, there would be Ironmen on the loose, and he would prolly bring some men w/ him back to Winterfell. Either way you cut it, with a war raging and an obvious threat to the north (and Winterfell) I doubt a seasoned commander/Knight would be travelling without an escourt. Just my 2c

[Magjee]

I was surprised they didnt drown him as a sacrifice.

[Honey Badger]

I think if they kept the tone of the books, then Rodrick was caught unawares and overwhelmed. In cases of trickery the numbers aren't going to matter. Plus you could easily write that they were spread thin while Theon had the benefit of surprise, keeping a wedge, and hit-and-run tactics.

The books did have it that Theon won't be reinforced by Asha, and the Northerners were rallying to retake Winterfell. It wasn't until the Bastard bashed his face in that all his plans went awry.

I liked the way Rodrick went down. Calling Theon a traitor and a coward, how ugly his execution was, Bran crying, everything. Well done.

Then suddenly he just ends up captured by himself? WTF? What about the 200 men he had with him that would have easily overwhelmed the handful that Theon had? Then it is also mentioned in the message to Robb that Rodrick was killed but how could that have been known since Luwin sent the Raven before it happened?

If Theon was able to surprise Rodrick and catch him in a compromising position, then the numbers don't matter. If you get the enemy to rout first, then 1000 can easily beat back 3000. Or in this case, 30-50 could beat 200. So long as Theon's play struck hard enough, then Rodrick's men were reasonably scattered.

For the ravens, Luwin was ordered to send out birds to announce Prince Theon's ascension. He could have mentioned Cassel's death then.

[tolthar]

I want to point out that soldiers in the show version disappear and re-appear all the time, and sometimes new soldiers complete with northern armour and spears manifest out of thin air. For instance. in episode 3 Catelyn has a pair of northerners with her as she approaches the tourney scene at Renlys camp. She just like leaves em there and forgets? I can just imagine them chilling down in the storm lands around a camp fire wondering if their Lady is ready to leave yet.

There are lots of scenarios where this happens.

[Floredaï]

I agree that a lot of things relating to the war and geography need a good deal of suspension of disbelief : soldiers come and go, characters are able to cross half of Westeros in a couple of days : Catelyn coming back alone from Storm's End to where Robb is in the western lands (and how did she know where to find him ?) without any trouble from teh lannisters troops? ; Littlefinger coming to Tywin in Harrenhall to negociate Joffrey's marriage to Margaery ? Didn't he notice the road went through King's Landing, and that Tyrion was there and supposed to rule as Hand in place of Tywin?

[Fez]

My fanwank is that they got to Torren's Square and didn't see any enemy there, and so Rodrik sent his men back to the fields for the harvest (Winter is coming after all) and he went back to Winterfell/with a handful of full-time guards.

[victim]

Rodrik probably should have been drowned, but whatever, other than that I have no problem with how it was done.

[Reposado]

There are lots of scenarios where this happens.

yeah, this is definitely one of them. They figure that 95% of people won't notice.

There were no named, disposable characters at Winterfell in the show, so they brought back Rodrick. He also arrived back at Winterfell very soon after the Ironborn, don't see how he could have heard and gotten back that soon.

I agree that a lot of things relating to the war and geography need a good deal of suspension of disbelief : soldiers come and go, characters are able to cross half of Westeros in a couple of days :

In the book, wars are won with quills and ravens. In the show, wars are won with teleporting diplomats.

[bloodymime]

I want to point out that soldiers in the show version disappear and re-appear all the time, and sometimes new soldiers complete with northern armour and spears manifest out of thin air. For instance. in episode 3 Catelyn has a pair of northerners with her as she approaches the tourney scene at Renlys camp. She just like leaves em there and forgets? I can just imagine them chilling down in the storm lands around a camp fire wondering if their Lady is ready to leave yet.

There are lots of scenarios where this happens.

I don't know why but I busted out laughing at the thought of them sitting there in an empty field with everyone gone.

'think the Lady might have forgotten us?'