273 replies to this topic

[Lyeder]

Eddard Sand, on 09 May 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

I'm guessing the rationale behind this is: Oh shit he intends/has been ordered to kill me but is having trouble with it. Now what could i possibly do to make this even more difficult for him? Oh I know!!!

Or:  how can I make him loosen my hands, so that I can get rid of him and go back to my folks?

BTW, I don't think that Jon and Robb easily falling for a girl in that war context is unrealistic. Always at war the number of marriages rises quickly as the number of births.

But I did not like the Ygritte and even less the Lady Talisa change. Jeyne was enough for me. Yesterday (I could only see that episode yesterday, being in Switzerland), I wondered for a moment if in the series Robb will really marry another woman or of Talisa is just ther to show how how hard it is for him to keep his promise to the Freys - but they murder him at his own wedding, because this is even more profitable than to have a Stark in the family.

Oh, and Talisa's snarky remark about what she wrote: I took it for humor, not for her being a spy.

Edited by Lyeder, 09 May 2012 - 01:25 AM.

[Spaßvogel]

Peasant Rebel Leader, on 07 May 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

The episode worked for me, they do less exposition now and more story, there are actual mini-arcs in one episode (see Osha convincing Theon and then freeing the kids f.e.).

There were some unnecessary weak points like the sitcomy way Robb's scenes with Jeyne/Talisa were set up, Jaqen literally able (and willing) to kil Armory Lorch in under 5 minutes or the fact that they have apparently already eaten all their horses in King's Landing (must have been the big bad budget monster).

Especially the way Robb and Talisa's "Epic Love Story" - copyright Hollywood - was presented, irked me. It seemed more of "Twu Luuv" than the pseudo-realism we're used to from Game of Thrones.

I dunno, it seemed more "twu wuv" in the books since it happened instantly with no set up at all.  I think in a linerally presented TV show you have to show the steps a little more.  I also think the killing of Lorch made sense.  As an assassin he usually makes it seem impossible that they were assassinated.  (the way he gets the dogs to kill the master for example in the books).  He does that when he has time and planning on his side.  It makes sense to me that if he was forced to hurry that there would be something as clumsy and obvious as a poison dart.

So far they're pretty consisent at leaving out redundant confrontations.  And obviously the episode starting with the Winterfell battle was carefully crafted to save money and avoid having to show horses.  I actually feel like I have a bit more impetus to watch the TV show now because I just may be surprised.

[ShadowRaven]

Mad Queen, on 08 May 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

What's wrong with preferring the book's version of some event to the show's? ShadowRaven has written several paragraphs explaining why he didn't like the changes. He didn't just say it was not the same as the book. You made that up.

Someone who realises I'm not a perfectionist, just an opportunist.

[IronSuitor]

I view the meet cute scenes as a necessary evil. The whole Jon/Ygritte flirtation is equally insufferable in the book, and because the show doesn't have a POV structure it can't just have Robb show up with a wife. (Even in the book, it seemed a little abrupt and contrived.)

"Falling in love" scenes are unavoidably cutesy and predictable, so much so that most classic love stories simply use the plot device of love at first sight, or have the characters hate each other up until the last moment. This isn't just a problem of fiction, it happens in real life too. There's a reason you think your friends are being excruciating when they start a new romance - it's because they are.

So far I think the writers are doing an OK job of getting humor and some decent dialogue out of these scenes. And yes, Talissa is Jeyne. Even Robb can tell she's lying about her identity.

[skwiskwis]

Maybe you need HD to see it, but isn't it strange the characters who are in the "North" (beyond the wall) don't exhale water vapor when they talk, but in some of the outdoor scenes farther "south" the characters do?    I'd say the scenes shot in the beyond the wall settings are some of the weakest cinematiclaly, just because of what must be budget problems.  Thoroughly enjoying the HBO series (and yes I've also read the books), although I'd say Season 1 was the better (so far).

[Septon Meribald]

skwiskwis, on 09 May 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Maybe you need HD to see it, but isn't it strange the characters who are in the "North" (beyond the wall) don't exhale water vapor when they talk, but in some of the outdoor scenes farther "south" the characters do? I'd say the scenes shot in the beyond the wall settings are some of the weakest cinematiclaly, just because of what must be budget problems.  Thoroughly enjoying the HBO series (and yes I've also read the books), although I'd say Season 1 was the better (so far).

Well considering the beyond the wall scenes are shot on an Icelandic glacier there's no real way to make it any colder. They can't shoot it in winter because there is no light at all. So if it was a little warmer than they'd like we have to live with it.

[Ran]

Yeah, the stuff beyond the Wall -- at least from episode 5 on -- is all in Iceland, where it was below 0, and sometimes it hit -35...

[Bastard of Boston]

Lightning Lord, on 08 May 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Stealing her doesn't mean she turns into a lovesick puppy.  Have to steal her and keep her.  Getting stabbed in the middle of the night by your prisoner isn't worthy of love or respect.

I don't even think she's doing it because she's somehow smitten. I think she's mostly doing it because she knows it makes him uncomfortable. She's pushing his buttons, which isn't exactly out of character.

[Mulled Wino]

IronSuitor, on 09 May 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I view the meet cute scenes as a necessary evil. The whole Jon/Ygritte flirtation is equally insufferable in the book, and because the show doesn't have a POV structure it can't just have Robb show up with a wife. (Even in the book, it seemed a little abrupt and contrived.)

"Falling in love" scenes are unavoidably cutesy and predictable, so much so that most classic love stories simply use the plot device of love at first sight, or have the characters hate each other up until the last moment. This isn't just a problem of fiction, it happens in real life too. There's a reason you think your friends are being excruciating when they start a new romance - it's because they are.

So far I think the writers are doing an OK job of getting humor and some decent dialogue out of these scenes. And yes, Talissa is Jeyne. Even Robb can tell she's lying about her identity.

i enjoyed sufferring through that, I was laughing at JS when he was having all his second thoughts.  I thought it was entertaining.

[So1ar]

congokong, on 07 May 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

The actor playing Bran did a terrible job when Theon burst in. He looked like he wanted to hit the snooze and go back to sleep.

That's exactly how it happened in the book. Theon busts into his room in the middle of the night and Bran is half awake trying to realize what is happening.

[aeu]

ShadowRaven, on 08 May 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

They hire an actor play a whore, but they can't hire two child actors for the role of the Reeds? What the hell? And people may say their roles aren't significant, but that's not true. They are VERY important to Bran's storyline.

Am I the only one who thinks that the way it is currently playing out in the books, Bran's storyline leaves much to be desired?  I would think a lot of people would be upset, but personally, I would love if the show took a radically different direction and gave us a story in which Bran does NOT turn into a tree.

Bastard of Boston, on 08 May 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

I do find it intriguing how so many of the problems people have with the show are essentially issues which are present in the text. I gave it some thought, and I have to wonder how much medium has to do with it. With books, people can romanticize book occurrences because the written word leaves so much to interpretation -- the author relies on the reader's imagination for a scene to resonate. People read something and can do so much with it. However, show it on the television screen, and suddenly the experience changes...what they thought was so great suddenly falls flat.

The cliche relationships between Jon/Ygritte and Robb/Jeyne (Talisa), and now this instance with the Winterfell sack.

This is an excellent point.  I was thinking along the same lines when some people were quite upset last week when JH talked about the red god.

[The Second Hand]

This is where it's hard to argue that they could have done anything differently. The biggest problem this season has been unneccesary changes that could of easily been rectified. This had to be done the way it was.

[Paul Stewart]

The show is fixing some problems of the book.  I realize that's heresy on this board, but I'm glad they're making decisions on cutting out extraneous characters, and adding in events that make the show move along as a television event needs to do.

[7V3N]

Paul Stewart, on 09 May 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

The show is fixing some problems of the book.  I realize that's heresy on this board, but I'm glad they're making decisions on cutting out extraneous characters, and adding in events that make the show move along as a television event needs to do.

I agree, like making Arya Tywin's cupbearer, rather than Roose's. But there are more unnecessary changes than there are necessary. Why is Littlefinger now clearly motivated by his love for Cat? Why was Myrcella crying? Why is Cersei sane? These changes for the show are just stupid. The TV writers seem to think they can one-up GRRM in every scene.

[Lightning Lord]

People really think Myrcella crying is a big deal?  I noticed the change, but since it didn't alter one bit of the story, I just didn't care.  She's a little girl being sent away from her family to live with strangers in a foreign land...so she cried.  Yes, Martin pointed out that she bravely didn't cry, but how is this change at all significant?

[7V3N]

Lightning Lord, on 09 May 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

People really think Myrcella crying is a big deal?  I noticed the change, but since it didn't alter one bit of the story, I just didn't care.  She's a little girl being sent away from her family to live with strangers in a foreign land...so she cried.  Yes, Martin pointed out that she bravely didn't cry, but how is this change at all significant?

It was the first main thing to establish her character. She is brave and dutiful. We already knew she was a sweet girl. It may not matter now, but it will in the future books because she has a big part to play in Dorne.

[Snow's Spearwife]

So1ar, on 09 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

That's exactly how it happened in the book. Theon busts into his room in the middle of the night and Bran is half awake trying to realize what is happening.

And he is waking up from dreaming of being  a wolf....so its much harder to wake up from.

[Lightning Lord]

The Shadow Fox, on 09 May 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

It was the first main thing to establish her character. She is brave and dutiful. We already knew she was a sweet girl. It may not matter now, but it will in the future books because she has a big part to play in Dorne.

How does her crying now preclude future actions?  Do you really think audiences or writers are going to come up against the future events in Dorne and say "Hey now, no way does she have any bravery, we saw that little girl cry... once... years ago... when she was sent away from the only life and people she'd ever known... to a place she's only read about..."?  Expressing sadness and bravery are not mutually exclusive, even for Lannisters, and particularly for children.

Also, even in later books, Myrcella is barely a character.  The series would have suffered more from lack of Dolorous Edd than lack of Myrcella.

[redqueen]

I miss the Reeds.  I think they're needed to get Bran and Rickon where they need to go.  Osha can't be two places at once.  Hodor can't fish and hunt for Bran while carrying him.  Rickon needs a mother figure to take him to safety.  The Reeds are necessary.

[Dragon greyscale]

Septon Meribald, on 08 May 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

The difference is in the books these were asides. Someone remembers the time Joffrey cut open a cat to see if it was prenant, one paragraph. Sansa observes Joffrey firing a crossbow at the gates, half a page, before talking to him and being abused as we are updated on the events in King's Landing and the larger war.

Should the show skip the aside of the gravedigger (if we ever reach affc)? Robb's love affair was never mentioned in the books, but it can hardly be called inconsequential.
My point is that the amount of text for an arc, a character, or event does not necessarily reflect the importance for the overall story. Joff's sadistic nature is important because it sets him apart from all other potential kings. Whether the specific ros scene was necessary... I dont know. Two weeks ago I thought they would develop it some more (i.e. Furthering the conflict between Tyrion and Joff). That doesn't seem to be the case. I still eant to cast a final verdict after the season's over.