273 replies to this topic

[OliveJonSnow]

I've been watching the series with someone who hasn't read the books.  I help fill in the cracks or answer questions.  At the end of this episode all I could say was "I've got nothing....."

SO many changes!  I've decided to roll with the punches and forget what I know.

[turdle]

Arkash, on 07 May 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Dont worry, it is obvious Qhorin will reappear again!

i agree, i thought when he asked ygritte what they would do with him if they captured him was set up for him deciding to have jon get captured instead of him. as though he planned to get captured himself, but hearing her say they'd cut his head off, he must change his plan to get at mance.

[Sphinx The Riddle]

its an adaptation. not the book

[Envie]

The opener scene was such a stunner. I actually had to stop it, cry for a minute, and restart it. I was totally NOT expecting the direction they just went with Theon and Ser Rodrik!

At first I was annoyed by the rest of the changes, but now its growing on me and I have to say the producers are taking strategic liberties with the plot that for the most part work really well. There have been a couple of areas that fell flat for me (such as the addition of whore scenes that never existed) but pretty much all of the major plot changes have made sense and still flow with the overall story in general.

To me, its ok so long as the story still goes the way GRRM wrote it overall... meaning no major characters were killed that weren't in the book (such as lets say Sansa or Sam or someone else that may affect later story arcs).

Having Rodrik hacked up by Theon was very shocking but it doubly intensifies the pure tragedy of Theon's story even more than it already was for book fans. We already knew Rodrik dies so how they chose to have him die was not so much a big deal and this was a really dramatic way to do it. There's a lot of stuff from the books that they don't have time to put on film for you to truly get a feel of how hated Theon was with the sacking of Winterfell, so I felt like this was a good way for them to bring that to life while still remaining true to the story.

[Indigocell]

I consider myself one of the lucky ones to be able to enjoy this series for it's own merits, I don't concern myself too much with how it plays out in the books.  

I'm not bothered by the changes, although I do feel sometimes that certain scenes fall short of expectations.  That said...

-Theon taking Winterfell happened off screen, however the way he described it was essentially the same way it happened in the books.  He only needed a small raiding party with grappling hooks.  Killing Rodrick here makes sense if they don't want to introduce Ramsay until later as well, it also sort of cements Theon's downfall showing how far he is really willing to go.

- The Jeyne Westerling change isn't terribly important as long as she fulfills the same role, besides Jeyne Westerling is about as generic sounding a name as Jon Northerly.  Just my opinion, hehe.

- I'm having trouble recalling how it happens in the books, but I do seem to recall Arya frantically searching for Jaqen to kill someone in order to save herself.  Isn't this more or less the way it goes down?

As a sidenote, I think Jaqen is coming off way cooler on screen than I thought he was in the books.  I wish we could keep this actor for the entire series, it will be sad when he sheds that mask.

[Awesome Oberyn Martell]

The change with Jeyne is annoying me more than anything, it's also going to make Robb look more of a fool now that Cat has had that talk with him.

No, Arya had two (cruel but unimportant) guards killed then realised she had one left and tricked Jaqen into freeing some Northern Lords to take over Harrenhal

And Jaqen was cool in the books too.

[turdle]

Envie, on 07 May 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Having Rodrik hacked up by Theon was very shocking but it doubly intensifies the pure tragedy of Theon's story even more than it already was for book fans. We already knew Rodrik dies so how they chose to have him die was not so much a big deal and this was a really dramatic way to do it. There's a lot of stuff from the books that they don't have time to put on film for you to truly get a feel of how hated Theon was with the sacking of Winterfell, so I felt like this was a good way for them to bring that to life while still remaining true to the story.

i think it serves the purposes of the writers even more than that. if theon is willing to behead rodrik, it's even more convincing that he would be willing to behead... oh i don't know... lets say a couple of other people...

[Envie]

turdle, on 07 May 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

i think it serves the purposes of the writers even more than that. if theon is willing to behead rodrik, it's even more convincing that he would be willing to behead... oh i don't know... lets say a couple of other people...

I had considered this possibility as well. They may be setting viewers up to really believe Theon is so despicable to have performed such villainous acts. Good call!

[Monk Meth-]

marcella crying bothered me.. considering how big of a point they made it for us to know she didn't crying when she was leaving in the book.

[No Avatar- that movie suck]

I like the dragon-napping personally, because the whole conclusion of the HOTU sequence in the book was one of the biggest WTF? moments for me in the series.

Pyat Pree seemingly attacking Dany at random, without any clear motivation? WTF?

A baby dragon, barely able to fly and with all the firepower of a cigarette lighter burning down the sprawling complex that the HOTU was described as in the books? WTF?

Burning down the HOTU because one warlock went crazy, and the Qartheen not lynching Dany on the spot? WTF?

the whole thing just seemed strange to me.

Give Dany some more drama and motivation. Works for me.

[House Snow]

turnipspreventscurvy, on 07 May 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I like the dragon-napping personally, because the whole conclusion of the HOTU sequence in the book was one of the biggest WTF? moments for me in the series.

Pyat Pree seemingly attacking Dany at random, without any clear motivation? WTF?

A baby dragon, barely able to fly and with all the firepower of a cigarette lighter burning down the sprawling complex that the HOTU was described as in the books? WTF?

Burning down the HOTU because one warlock went crazy, and the Qartheen not lynching Dany on the spot? WTF?

the whole thing just seemed strange to me.

Give Dany some more drama and motivation. Works for me.

I m with you.  I think the purist stick their heads in the sand about the fact that as great as his story is, GRRM did a lot, and I mean a lot of things that don't make sense, or were deus ex machina, or you get the point.  To me  one area the show is really doing a good job, esp with the female characters, is making things realistic.  Catelyn callouness, Cersei sensual craziness, Arya the psychotic killer, Sansa's traitor streak, Margaerys innocense all were really really over the top.  People say the show is not subtle enough but in reality sometime GRRM subtleness was just pulling stuff out his ass, rationality be damned.  I like that the show gives hints to the why someone does something before it happens.  People actually have motives that make sense now.  Dany Dragons to the HOTU is a perfect example of that.

[SerArthurHeath]

Nope. I think the abruptness of the opening scene was a positive and a lesson in how such a scene should be done. Too many films and shows overuse "foretelling"- dramatic irony only works if it is used sparingly and as the out of the blue events are a GRRM specialty, I think the first scene was both in character with the books and great. Jaqen can kill people in whatever way he likes, he's a FM. I thought it was too ordinary a killing if anything. Every change in this epsiode, IMO, was a triumph. If I wanted to go over the story of the books rather than someone else's portrayal that captures the spirit and characters and (so far, though I have my worries) important aspects of plot, if just reread the books. A straight adaptation, like a straight cover, frequently adds nothing to a piece of art, and letting adaptors, be they covering musicians, actors or directors, put their own interpretation onto their adaptation is the entire point behind it

[SerArthurHeath]

Kenneth Yung, on 07 May 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

-Replacing Jeyne Westerling. Kind of a big change IMO. But as long as Robb ends up reluctantly breaking his Oath to the Freys to marry another girl out of love, than its not a big deal. In the show though, seems like he's the one trying to bang her. And she's not a noble. So it seems a bit out of character.
-

I still think it is Jeyne or someone like her. If I could find a bookie offering odds on her bring a noble, I'd put a huge bet on it. She even admits it in this episode! Every single bit of her characterisation shouts noble, and more than a bit shouts Princess Jasmine from Disney's Aladdin. I'd put a smaller bet on her being a Westerosi noble, too, or at least being a Lannister bastard

[Morrigan]

Yes. I enjoyed the opening of the episode, and the riot (minus the Romero zombie flick silliness), but there's only so many changes you can make just for the sake of having changes before it moves from being an adaptation and straight into hackneyed  fanfiction territory. This episode crossed the line for me. Now if only the changed scenes were well-written, I might be more tolerant, but they were shoddily executed and broke internal consistency multiple time. This is the biggest issue for me.

[SerArthurHeath]

What do you think broke internal consistency? There may well have been stuff but I didn't notice anything

[SerArthurHeath]

Ah actually LF being at Harrenhal so quickly is a little odd. But as GRRM is about the worst person at getting distances, positions and timings in order whose work I have encountered in any medium since Heroditus, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they were just trying to stick to the spirit of the books

[victim]

It's not that big of a deal really. Littlefinger took the same amount of "episode" time -- from the beginning of episode 5 to the beginning of episode 6 -- getting from the Stormlands to Harrenhal as it took for Ned to get from Winterfell to King's Landing in Season 1. The only difference is this one happens off-screen.

[IronSuitor]

SerArthurHeath, on 07 May 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

Ah actually LF being at Harrenhal so quickly is a little odd. But as GRRM is about the worst person at getting distances, positions and timings in order whose work I have encountered in any medium since Heroditus, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they were just trying to stick to the spirit of the books

Catelyn also shows up in Robb's camp in the same amount of time. We have to assume, given that Theon made it from the Iron Islands to Winterfell, that weeks have passed. The showrunners have obviously given up trying to telegraph passage of time to the audience.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

The opening scene was one of the best scenes in the series thus far. I am not a purist. If I wanted the book, I'd READ THE BOOK. I totally expect and WANT the show to diverge a little bit. Often when they do diverge, it's for the best. The added scenes have been wonderful additions. Roz has been the only dud in that regard.

Anyway, everyone's acting during the Sack of Winterfell scene was what really made it. Alfie Allen deserves at least a nomination for this. My heart was in my throat the whole time even though I knew what would happen.

[congokong]

The actor playing Bran did a terrible job when Theon burst in. He looked like he wanted to hit the snooze and go back to sleep.