273 replies to this topic

[victim]

congokong, on 07 May 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

The actor playing Bran did a terrible job when Theon burst in. He looked like he wanted to hit the snooze and go back to sleep.

That wasn't the acting, it was the script. Great way to show confusion, in my opinion.

[Chelly]

I'm not bothered at all. TBH, the only thing that really bothers me is why do they keep showing the Wall in the opening credits when they are not at the?! Yes, that's pretty much it.

[cromagnificent]

Taking off Ser Rodrick's head was brilliant IMO. It had much more dramatic effect than killing Mikken or the kennel master who we have no connection to. The look on Alfie Allen's face was masterful acting.It was the perfect portrayal of a man who knows he just went too far to ever turn back. I had to pause the show and just stare for 10 minutes to let it sink in. Maybe my favorite episode thus far. As far as the Reeds go don't get all sweaty and worked up. I saw at least 2 dozen posts of people freaking out bcuz Ramsey wasn't cast yet  either but it looks like he's good to go so I bet the Reeds are in the mix too..

[johnnysd]

Actually not at all.

I truly believe that the TV show is providing a tighter more interesting show than the books, with beautiful symmetry with  previous seasons and better character arcs.

Season is hitting EVERY MAJOR point in the books, but is getting there in a streamlined and improved fashion in many ways. I think many characters are deeper, MORE grey and much more interesting than their more one-dimensional book counterparts.

I agree with almost every decision they have made this year (except for Yara), and even some changes that seem limiting like the deaths of almost all of Dany's khalasar will pay dividends down the road in her arc.

The books are special things. They are so complex and deep and detailed, and the events are not tidy with seemingly dozens of minor characters and extra characters that okay pivotal roles at certain parts of the books. It reads almost like history and the fact that the scope and breadth of the sheer number of players contribute to the story in some way gives it incredible realism. GRRM is consistent in this and only in a few instances goes the "obvious" and formulaic way of using his characters

The TV show condenses many characters so that the main characters have richer and denser arcs in the show, and it makes the experience much better. It's not like they cut down that much either, there are still probably 15-20 fairly major characters. At this point in the books though there is probably 50.

But the main story is actually untouched and the key moments all happen. It is still amazingly faithful to the books. Some of the changes, like Dany's dragons being stolen, seem like elements that GRRM should have included himself.

I think that the show and the books are separate but equal and both neat the pinnacle of excellence for their medium.

[johnnysd]

IronSuitor, on 07 May 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Catelyn also shows up in Robb's camp in the same amount of time. We have to assume, given that Theon made it from the Iron Islands to Winterfell, that weeks have passed. The showrunners have obviously given up trying to telegraph passage of time to the audience.

And lets face it, GRRM does the same exact thing. Exactly when some things happen in ASOIAF or even time between scenes is ften a complete mystery in the series.

[Patchface12]

The only thing I thought was kind of stupid was Amory Lorch's death. I felt this great feeling of satisfaction when he got fed to the bear. His death was just so forgettable and unrealistic in the show.

Robb said he could tell Talissa was highborn, which leads me to believe she is Jeyne under some guise. Tho why he would marry someone who deliberately lied to him I don't know.

I'm hoping Jon eventually does let Ygritte go and find the Halfhand and co., and all those events are nothing more than filler

One change I did sort of like was Jaime having dyslexia

[Frumpus]

They kept the spirit of the original story, and the only real change was the ending cliffhanger, which I'm sure will be resolved rather quickly in next week's episode. I really don't get why people are complaining. It is impossible to follow the book word by word. They have to condense stuff. It's common sense.

[congokong]

victim, on 07 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

That wasn't the acting, it was the script. Great way to show confusion, in my opinion.

No. It was the acting. He didn't seem surprised, and his tone was uninterested.

[MrDoog]

Nope I'm not too bothered.

Was very curious as to how they were planning on spicing up Daenery's arc, stealing dragons is as good as any I suppose.

The first scene at Winterfell was done excellently imo.

The Robb love interest thing is slightly peculiar. I don't have a problem with it, I just think it's all rather pointless to change it from how the books' portrayal. My best guess is that they're doing this in order to give Robb more screen time, rather than having long periods where he's absent. I think that's a big positive overall and in having him as a main-ish character it will serve to increase his tragedy in the next season, in that the audience will be emotionally invested in bride and groom. Good call by the show writers I think.

Having Arya serve as Tywin's cupbearer? Grand. For the purposes of a tv show, a major player like Tywin does need to be shown more and be kept fresh in the viewers' mind.

Jon & YGritte.. too early to judge or say how they're going to polish that off. But they've dedicated too much air time to Halfhand to not feature him in the next episode or two.


The important thing is that none of these adaptation changes are detracting from the key points of the book or the characterisation of our main players. And all the while the show is made more accessible to those that haven't read the books. I'm loving the series, I loved the books. They're slightly different. So what.
The only thing in the whole series that has really annoyed me was in season one when Tyrion gets knocked unconscious before his battle, and as a result, half of me can't wait for the battle of Blackwater while the other half is dreading it.

Edited by MrDoog, 07 May 2012 - 11:43 PM.

[Honey Badger]

I liked the episode.  Changes should be judged individually, not biased against simply because they don't match the books.  A 1:1 adaptation would probably be rather boring.

Ygritte I think is yummy; sufficiently cute yet wild, and the actress looks like a geek.  Well done.  I guess she doesn't start her catchphrase "you know nothing, Jon Snow," until later.

Ser Rodrick was properly handled and compressed.  They just don't have the screen time to show Rodrick cavorting around and getting his arm hacked off.  And Theon hacking Rod's head off is more meaningful than some random smith or helper.  Rodrick was the one who taught Theon how to swing a sword, after all.  Now Theon will get a discreet story line with the Bastard of Bolton without Rod involved.

Dany's dragon kidnap is kind of lame, but they need to make up storyline for her.  Dany, for being the eventual invader of Westeros, is one of the most boring characters in the series.  I'm glad they're doing something, anything with that character.  Aegon the Conqueror by comparison seemed to have a lot more charisma, which is funny since he's mainly a blurb and passing lore.

The Reeds I'm glad were cut.  There was a fair amount of filler to Bran's journey, and it's fine that a warg can have green seeing dreams too.  Might as well compress all that.  The only thing I think they should keep around is Howland Reed's role in fighting the King's Guard with Ned.  It was an awesome flashback with Ned being sad about having to cut down noble men, and how it wasn't a beginning but a sad end, and the whole talk of bringing back the Sword of the Morning back to Arthur's family.  Great stuff.

[The Bastard of Bolton]

I would of loved to see the ironborn scale the walls, some whispers in the darkness before they closed in.

I know the sudden and unexpected nature of the attack is the point of it and HBO might have wanted to reflect that.
For the medium it would have felt a bit less awkward with a stealth invasion as a setup.  Have Bran having a bad dream of waves crashing on the shore.  Have Bran be relieved to be woken up by Theon and then the switch.

[aimlessgun]

Ep. didn't really work for me.
-The entire Lorch saga felt contrived.
-Littlefinger randomly showing up felt ridiculous considering distances.
-Jon's part was cute and Ygritte is doing an amazing job IMO, but I got too bogged down worrying how the fuck Quorin is going to tell Jon to kill him (and if that doesn't happen, wow....).
-Dany is really coming off terribly in the show, and I suppose it's intentional, showing her megalomaniacal and/or childish side, but it's a bit annoying to experience on screen.
-Theon being all like "surprise, I've got Winterfell" threw me off from the beginning. Osha annoys the hell out of me for some reason, purely personal prejudice I'd imagine (probably some unfair comparisons to the Reeds as well). But Bran and Rodrick's beheading were great.

Anyways, the EP made me realize that a lot of the pleasure I get from this show is contingent on seeing scenes from the books that I have in my imagination played out on screen. If an episode doesn't give me anything in this regard, I feel let down. Obviously doesn't have to be the whole episode, but I think this one is the first where literally nothing went down like I pictured in my head.

Edited by aimlessgun, 08 May 2012 - 12:09 AM.

[kirazikins]

I wasn't bothered at all this week. Yes, there were a lot of deviations but I think they are understandable and were well performed / executed.

I'd rate this episode a 8.5/10

[DirtyRobes]

congokong, on 07 May 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

No. It was the acting. He didn't seem surprised, and his tone was uninterested.

That's exactly what I Loved about the way he acted that scene. He was literally Just woken up by Theon... his minds going WTF? how is Theon here? He is at war with Robb? Why would Robb send him home???

He doesn't know the Ironborn have risen up and reclaimed the Seastone Chair, as far as he is concerned at this point Theon is still like a brother to him.

[Independent George]

The opening sequence was my favorite part of the episode, maybe my favorite part of the season. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about it, at all.

After my initial shock at the dragon theft, I thought that made a hell of a lot more sense than what happened in the books. Of course somebody's going to just go and steal her dragons; my only question is why nobody tried it sooner.

I love the Tywin/Arya scenes, but I thought something was lost by having her kill Amory Lorch in that manner. One of the great things about Weese's death was that it made you wonder how in the hell did Jaqen get the dog to turn on its master like that, and what, exactly, was the extent of his powers. I don't care much about adhering to the book's events, but such a mundane murder diminishes the subtle chills behind one of the great moments in the book.

Robb/Talisa fell flat and forced to me.

[wood_dat_aye_could]

Simply put... Best episode in the entire series.  Dany scene at the end was a mind yuck, yes, and too much mystery w/ the Westerling chick.  But, sooo much action.  I sincerely appreciate the changes, because it keeps me guessing where they are going w/ it, instead of simply waiting for things to happen.

... The mere mention of Bolton's Bastard got my adrenaline going, and always wanted to see how the Hound saved Sansa.

[zippypoodle]

ShadowRaven, on 07 May 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Have we forgotten about the Reeds so quickly? Or how about Reek (I know, Bolton's Bastard is still coming, but different Reek).

I honestly couldn't care less about the Reeds and do not understand why a considerable number of people think they are so vital to the story. If the Reeds are your favorite secondary characters and you're disappointed for that reason, then OK, I get the disappointment. But as far as being absolutely vital to the story, not so much.  Jojen is an annoying know-it-all and is bascially an exposition device. And Meera catches frogs.

[Hear Us Roar]

Loved it, they got right to the point.

[Ser Buggerthat]

LF is the guy in this series, who explains and summerizes the events for the vievers - that's why he is got a bigger role here than in the book

[ShadowRaven]

Ashas Globetrotter, on 07 May 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

I have never been a purist, but I`m with Shadowraven with this. This episode diverged from the book in every scene except the riot(-greeeeeat). Except Arya GRRMs version is better. Plus in retrospect I understand that they need to juice up Dany. But did not like how the Ygritte scene ended up. Whats gonna happen now, he`s going straight to the Wildlings out of love?? cliche- blah!! Winterfell was good enough, but in general they are not creating the shock n suprise factor that GRRM manages-too rushed intro.I hope this not means the will continue doing a complete juggle with the story. The promise of the bastard provided massive relief though.

Exactly.

I don't understand people saying the opening was REALLY good. It all seemed to go too fast and too forced. All of the actors in the opening weren't on their best. Maybe I'll have a different opinion on a re-watch, but it fellt really awkward and most of the acting if not all sucked in the opening.

It was not explained how Rodrik got wounded; he had A LOT of men, how the hell did he get beaten up? Too random.

The Jaqen part was ridiculous. FM are indeed a strong club, but not so strong that they can kill a soldier in just 2 seconds after finding out he needed to die. Unless he has super speed of course.

I'm starting to think that D&D are trying to rewrite everything in their own fashion; really gets on my nerves.

They hire an actor play a whore, but they can't hire two child actors for the role of the Reeds? What the hell? And people may say their roles aren't significant, but that's not true. They are VERY important to Bran's storyline. It's like wanting to cut out Maester Luwin because he doesn't come up often. Or cutting Jorah from Dany's storyline. Basically the same bloody thing.

I'll keep watching the show, but somehow I have a dreadfull feeling that D&D are going to ruin the show because they want to rush. COK should have been 15 episodes, not 10. Because of that, the opening felt too rushed.

So yeah....