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Talisa really who she says? (BOOK SPOILERS)


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#41 Magic 8 Ball

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:58 PM

The producers have said from the beginning that they just hope the series lasts long enough to do the Red Wedding.

Therefore, we can conclude that they are eager to pull of the biggest trolling in the history of drama/literature.

Jeyne is going to sneer as Roose sends Jaime Lannister's regards.

I'd gladly take a sword in the gut for Oona Chaplin, though.

#42 Magic 8 Ball

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

double post

Edited by turnipspreventscurvy, 08 May 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#43 ThePrinceOfSunspear

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:49 PM

I agree with the theory that Talisa/Jeyne is the one writing letters to Tywin. It doesn't really make any sense, but whatever. Maybe it will eventually. Apparently they are making Jeyne more of the villain than her parents, where in the books it appears that she was quite innocent and wanted no part of it.

I'm not exactly sure how the whole conspiracy between Tywin/Westerlings came into fruition in the books, but what will be the explanation in the show? Tywin sent some noble girl out into the fields to pose as a nurse to flirt with Robb and gain information? Huh?



Actually, Jeyne is looking way more like a bitch than Cersei is in the show. They are making Cersei look like an angel compared to the books. She's just a poor worried mother....


Hmmm I'm surprised you said that because I feel quite different. The one thing HBO has done right is the casting of Cersei Lannister and her portrayal throughout the entire series.

Cersei is exactly how I imagined her to be. A bitch whom I love/hate. I totally understand and (more importantly) BELIEVE that she loves her children and even Jaime Lannister to the point of death. She loathes Tyrion because of their mothers death and she is highborn. Hence she feels entitled and is a "Lioness of the Rock".

I think Cersei along with Varys is pure perfection as far as the tv depiction goes.

My main point though is that this "Jeyne" is not how I pictured her and that NOT every single female character has to be like Cersei/Maegery. Now that I'm thinking about Jeyne Westerling kind of reminds me of Sansa in some ways...

#44 Leuf

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:07 PM

But she does roll up a piece of paper behind her back with "the young wolf moves..." written on it.


Umm.. I've gone through it three times, the letter is never legible. She doesn't even put it behind her back.

#45 IceGal

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:45 AM

I liked her in the books to be honest.

Not every woman has to be a bitch like Cersei or a schemer like Maegery. She was just an innocent sweet girl who loved Robb Stark....thats what I wanted to see on TV but the actress fails at conveying that aspect of Jeyne Westerling IMO.

Shes very pretty no doubt and I have enjoyed her scenes with Robb thus far but its just not what I expected....


^This.

Though the fact that she's getting such a meaty role may indicate that Jeyne has a bigger role to play in books 6 and 7.

#46 Fred Stark

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:05 PM

People have to realise,while Jeyne doesnt play a role in planning the Red Wedding,there have been lots of theories about her and Robb relationship which one of the theory were the usage of love potion(Her grandmother was maggy who is known for soccery and love potions)...so if this is true,Jeyne is not that naive as depicted in the books.Yes she loves Robb and is loyal to him and she is kind but She somehow also wants some power or ranking..but the problem is her mother yearns more more bigger prospects..so thats why Talisa seems to be another character with grey shades in the show

#47 Stargareyen

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:48 PM

I like the idea that Reginald Lannister is Jeyne's father. Since Tywin sent him home, maybe he gets captured by Robb's men on the way and becomes one of the Karstark murders (along with Alton). So it would be Robb who was consoling Jeyne this way around (or maybe he heard about Bran and Rickon's death and it would be a mutual kind of thing)

Plus that could really explain why Robb puts Karstark to death

If the rumours are true and they've changed Jeyne to actually be a Lannister of Lannisport (ugh!), then I suspect that Reginald Lannister, who Tywin dismissed in Ghost of Harrenhal, is her father. He was never mentioned in the books and I'm pretty sure he's been created solely for the television show. It would annoy me, is it that inconvenient to state that the Westerlings are sworn bannermen to the Lannisters?

It seems as though Robb falling for the enemy is a situation being purposefully compared to Jon and Ygritte's romance.


For one, Robb can't marry a Lannister, that would be counter-productive to the RW. Talisa could be a spying for the Lannisters though, maybe the writer of the note Arya finds at Tywin's desk. But I don't see why Robb would marry a enemy spy even if he fell in love with her, he's got honorable Stark blood. She may be keeping Westerlings updated though, since Robb is on his way to attack them.

#48 JW.

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:37 PM

I'm still waiting for that backstory why someone from Volantis would be present in the Westerlands, and somehow finding oneself on the battlefield giving medical aid to soldiers. It really is such a forced romantic situation, the whole thing is to obvious.

#49 Lyeder

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:58 PM

But she does roll up a piece of paper behind her back with "the young wolf moves..." written on it.

Can you imagine how much nastier the RW will be with Jeyne standing there, sneering at him with no love in her eyes, realizing it was a setup the whole time?


She says in a snarky remark that this is what she wrote. WE don't actually see one word of what is written in the letter. I took it for wits and humour. And I surely think that she is not a spy.

I had a different idea during the scene: in the book, Catelyn never sees Jeyne before Rob comes back married. Here, she has seen her and taken to her to remind his duties to her son. Maybe Jeyne (or Talisa) will only show that Rob wants to follow his heart and love and marry her. But he will respect his word and marry a Frey girl - only the Freys betray him nevertheless, because an alliance with the Lannisters is even more profitable than one with the Starks. It would make Rob's death even more tragic - and the Frey even more antipathic and opportunist. And it would free the show from the need of Edmure Tully for the Red Wedding.

#50 runeghost

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:30 PM

I'm still waiting for that backstory why someone from Volantis would be present in the Westerlands, and somehow finding oneself on the battlefield giving medical aid to soldiers. It really is such a forced romantic situation, the whole thing is to obvious.


My guess is that Talisa (whether or not that is her real name) is going to turn out to be the daughter of Tywin's younger brother Gerion, who was last seen in Volantis and has been missing for 10 years.

#51 pamparius

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:22 PM

I don't see why people are so upset about this storyline. Love stories are sappy. There really isn't a way to film one esp with a few scenes (as opposed to an indepth chick flick movie) in a way that isn't going to be corny. Not showing how Robb met Jeyne or whoever she is was NOT an option.


Yes... Because love stories fall exclusively into the realm of corny chick flicks /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> and thanks for your "expert" opinion on what is and not possible within the confines of ongoing series.

#52 Magic 8 Ball

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:36 PM

Umm.. I've gone through it three times, the letter is never legible. She doesn't even put it behind her back.


My mistake. I do drink while watching sometimes.

She facetiously states that it says "The young wolf is on the move", however she also seems to clumsily hide other things by stating them deadpan, even if they are likely true.

She rolls up the letter nervously IN FRONT of her, not in back, when Rob turns his back.

Still conveying the same idea, I just bungled it overnight...

#53 Eddard Sand

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:37 PM

TALISA = JEYNE WESTERLING

IMDB shows Oona Chaplin, our mystery girl, cast as Jeyne Westerling. So I think we can safely say she is Jeyne.

I think deep down inside D&D really want to keep close to the story but at the same time don't mind twisting about how we arrive at the main plot points. In some ways they are improving some of the slightly less refined subplots. In the books I was like "Oh god Robb! What a dumbass" when he married Jeyne. Now, however, it's a little more believable. They are breathing life or rather fleshing out events from the books that GRRM never got to.

Hooray for the show!

#54 SerMixalot

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:50 PM

If you watch the preview for season 2 you will see a brief less than one second shot of Robb kissing Talissa (around the 20 minute mark).

Talissa is Jeyne

#55 House Snow

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:44 PM

TALISA = JEYNE WESTERLING

IMDB shows Oona Chaplin, our mystery girl, cast as Jeyne Westerling. So I think we can safely say she is Jeyne.

I think deep down inside D&D really want to keep close to the story but at the same time don't mind twisting about how we arrive at the main plot points. In some ways they are improving some of the slightly less refined subplots. In the books I was like "Oh god Robb! What a dumbass" when he married Jeyne. Now, however, it's a little more believable. They are breathing life or rather fleshing out events from the books that GRRM never got to.

Hooray for the show!


IMDB is edited by fans so that doesn't mean anything. Anyway I'm not sure why everyone is assasinating show Talisa/Jeyne character. To this point she seems to be a pretty sweet, down to earth girl. What has happened yet to refute that. She had one scene where she sides with peasants and another where she straight up flirts with Robb. How is she another Cersei/Margery? You know what would be stupid-her throwing herself at Robb the minute she met him--the way people talk about it. The fact that George copped out and sidstep the romance entirely doesn't mean the show can do the same. It would be ridiculous.

#56 Eddard Sand

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 08:53 PM

IMDB is edited by fans so that doesn't mean anything.


Darn... I was really hoping this was proof. I really want her to be Jeyne.

#57 House Snow

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:52 PM

Yes... Because love stories fall exclusively into the realm of corny chick flicks /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> and thanks for your "expert" opinion on what is and not possible within the confines of ongoing series.


Ok how would you have done. You have 4-5 scenes to show Rob falling for a girl who in the book was a nurse in the middle of a war. What did you think Robb was going to do. go up and say "I think you have pretty eyes" followed by Jeyne fluttering her eyes and blushing. Please do tell.

#58 Wjaykusuma

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:00 PM

It's Talisa 'Maegyr'


I believe she's actually Jeyne Westerling

#59 Envie

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:45 AM

I think deep down inside D&D really want to keep close to the story but at the same time don't mind twisting about how we arrive at the main plot points. In some ways they are improving some of the slightly less refined subplots. In the books I was like "Oh god Robb! What a dumbass" when he married Jeyne. Now, however, it's a little more believable. They are breathing life or rather fleshing out events from the books that GRRM never got to.


THIS.

It's my belief also that George has had a nod or two throughout the series to various twists the writers have thrown in where stories were previously missing (Margaery's more cunning personality for example may be one). He may be doing this to flesh out bits he didn't get to in the books, as you've said, or maybe he's suggesting they change or play up bits to open up plots and theories that haven't yet played out in the books.

I also felt like the Robb secret marriage to Jeyne Westerling was a real facepalm moment in the books that didn't seem to make a whole lot of sense with the vague 3rd party information we got on it. I felt like that plot was left hanging wide open for some reason. I am very intrigued by the fact they've had Jeyne-in-disguise give Maegyr as her surname, because in the books we know she's somehow related to "Maggy the Frog" which its said Maggy is a bastardization of "Maegi" ... and we all know well what / who the Maegi are!

The prophecy Maggy the Frog gave to Cersei as a girl was always a mystery to me from the books. GRRM put a lot of focus on it for awhile, and I kept waiting for the answer to be revealed, thinking there was more to it than just Cersei's obsession with the prophecy and her own crazy undoing... but nothing more happened that I can remember. It seemed like a plot that fizzled out.

And now I wonder why they are emphasizing "Maegi" again with Jeyne's fake name... curiouser and curiouser!

#60 Eddard Sand

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 01:04 AM

The prophecy Maggy the Frog gave to Cersei as a girl was always a mystery to me from the books. GRRM put a lot of focus on it for awhile, and I kept waiting for the answer to be revealed, thinking there was more to it than just Cersei's obsession with the prophecy and her own crazy undoing... but nothing more happened that I can remember. It seemed like a plot that fizzled out.

And now I wonder why they are emphasizing "Maegi" again with Jeyne's fake name... curiouser and curiouser!


With her disgrace in the walk of shame i thought she was thoroughly cowed and completely nullified as a character. I too thought the whole prophecy thing had fizzled. Cersei always believed Margaery was the younger more beautiful queen to overthrow her but in reality it is Dany. So when she was humiliated and nullified by the walk I was confused. Then Varys put a bolt in Kevan...

With Tywin, and Kevan Lannister dead, Tyrion exiled, and Jaimie off in the woods with Brienne, Cersei is the only remaining power in the Lannister Household and thus firmly planted as Queen Regent once again... she is also now bat shit crazy so things are not looking good for the Lannisters... Dany needs to get off her little cushions in Meeren and bind the wounds of westeros...

and this has nothing to do with the thread...

Edited by Eddard Sand, 10 May 2012 - 01:15 AM.