Talisa really who she says? (BOOK SPOILERS)

[bloodofthedragonqueen]

I don't know why they made this change... their love story could of been suggested to us in 2 scenes, not played out like a rom com. Cringe worthy. That monologue of hers was so boring... i'd rather see more of arya's storyline or jons. More on that later..

I hate Talisa anyway .

[The Anti-Targ]

Just want to affirm that the name change from Jeyne to Talisa was (almost) at the insistence of GRRM because the character is vastly different from Jeyne Westerling, and when you hear GRRM talk about this change you can tell he's barely holding back contempt for what they did with this story line. So Talisa isn't Jeyne Westerling in disguise, but I think she's also not what she appears to be and she'll play a part in Robb's demise...I hope. She certainly won't be at the Twins because that would be insult to injury.

[bloodofthedragonqueen]

GOT season two reminded me an awful lot of this show I watched as a kid- the Bold and the Beautiful.

It had phenomenal ratings, and because of this the producers tried to squeeze out as much money as they could by stretching the plot lines as far as possible, due to advertising.

Each scene infamously ends with drawn out stares, dramatic pauses and unfinished sentences. Following a scene cut, the characters seemingly improvise the exact same scene as before as though the confrontation never happened, just to draw out the climax.

You may also be interested to know- George RR Martin was a Soap Opera writer in Hollywood before he started Game of thrones. Anyone who has read the last two books may get some closure from this information! hah.

Talisa also has a horse face... bad casting there.

I have no idea why they changed it, because Robb didnt even find out about his bros deaths, so he just looks like a douche now !! Same as catelyn, how will viewers sympathise with her? I hate how they have made them all unlikeable.. Robb deserves to die for being so arrogant in the show. and I hate talisa for being so dumb and selfish- she knew he was engaged. I wish the unappealing talisa would die instead of cat and robb.

PS- if she was meant to seduce him why was she such a bitch when she first met him? and then ran away? Bad writing.

BAD. WRITING.

[Bronn Stone]

Talisa also has a horse face... bad casting there.

Whatever valid points you make are lost with this dumb comment. Oona is gorgeous. The character has plenty of problems, but unattractive is not one of them.

[The Kraken's Sweet Maiden]

If I remember correctly, when we heard that Oona was joined onto the cast, she was credited as a Jeyne, but not with a last name. Now she is credited as Talisa Maegyr. I think from how suspicious she was acting that she would have to be Jeyne, and if not, I'll be upset but not all that surprised. They did such a fantastic job with season one but now they've taken away so much from the story. Don't get me wrong, I understand that it can be hard to adapt a book to a show or a film, but I feel that some of what they cut loose could have stayed in with a little bit of effort. But I do think that they would really miss out on something good if they totally changed the character.

[bloodofthedragonqueen]

Whatever valid points you make are lost with this dumb comment. Oona is gorgeous. The character has plenty of problems, but unattractive is not one of them.

Wow that's rude. Each to their own, that's what I think, maybe i am just exposed to more beautiful women where I live (no doubt). She certainly isn't beautiful. Everyone has different perspectives depending what they are exposed to.

She would be considered very average where I live, and so what? Why are you taking offence to that? its a person you don't know, so who cares what I think of her? She wasn't cast for her looks anyway. What's the matter with you?

wow, people (crazy stalker fans, whatever) are damn strange. That fact you dismissed everything else I said cause I said she isn't attractive is so immature, I can hardly comprehend it. Defending someone you don't know by being rude to another you are interacting with? She can't read this but I can, so it's down negative points.

Go have a cry somewhere else. Lol. *rolls eyes* I hope not everyone here is that pathetic. You should of left out the first part of your comment. It's not DUMB for me to not find her hot. How is that dumb?

It's different to what YOU THINK, you mean.

[bloodofthedragonqueen]

Just want to affirm that the name change from Jeyne to Talisa was (almost) at the insistence of GRRM because the character is vastly different from Jeyne Westerling, and when you hear GRRM talk about this change you can tell he's barely holding back contempt for what they did with this story line. So Talisa isn't Jeyne Westerling in disguise..

I am going to try find that, it will make me feel a bit better knowing GRRM also doesn't approve of all this. Are those vids of him "showing contempt" on youtube?

Good to see that because I also was in the (small) party that never believed she was in disguise. When there is SO MUCH ELSE TO COVER why just complicate the plot even more? We are already invested in all these other people, bringing more complexity into another character seems pointless. She is who she says she is, it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

If she was in disguise do people really think she would go as far to chop a guy's leg off and backchat to robb? That doesn't sound like a typical seduction route to me.

If I had written the script I would of focused of Cat and Robb's relationship, so you can understand why cat loses her mind later. We already KNOW these characters and it would of been more powerful. It was a huge mistake trying to make it "romantic" instead of being what it was: a mother losing her family. THAT'S the point of it, the Starks losing, the family falling apart, them getting their revenge (hopefully) and all that.

Besides, it's not romantic when a chick understands the implications of convincing a guy who is already engaged (for survival reasons), to marry her. That's called being selfish, not being romantic. If she was worth it she would of said "no Robb, its too dangerous", and conducted a plan.

[bloodofthedragonqueen]

Whatever valid points you make are lost with this dumb comment. Oona is gorgeous. The character has plenty of problems, but unattractive is not one of them.

ahh yes, it did what it was meant to do. Get noticed and it worked. Hahaha I love seeing people ruffle their feathers when their worshipped-celebrities get dissed. Hahaha.

[LordStoneheart]

I truly believe Talisa is Jeyne and here's why:

1. The Maegyr/Maegi-Jeyne W. had ancestors in Essos... yada yada...

2. She asks Robb if she can go with him on his next... war outing at one point, he agrees. Later in the camp when Catelyn is trying to save Jamie from death at the hands of Karstark, he questions why Robb isn't there. Catelyn says "You know as well as I do that he's gone to the crag to negotiate a surrender..." THE CRAG!!! SURRENDER! In the books Robb meets Jeyne, Sybil, and Gawen at the Crag. It's like nod to Talisa's real identity.

3. The letter... I'm not going to debate what she wrote or if it has anything to do with the letter Arya stole, but think about it, every screen shot matters. This is a high-profile, high-budget show. What was the reason they specifically showed her writing a letter in the camp, and a few seconds later had her mockingly say she's a spy and Robb found her out? Maybe just an excuse for flirtation dialogue, but the letter isn't brought up again.

If Talisa doesn't turn out to be Jeyne, then the above information is awfully strange to put in the show. I'm hoping she is mostly because I'm still annoyed Rhaegar's series title drop wasn't shown in the House of the Undying, and Weasel Soup didn't make an appearance. I still love the show though...

[King of the Road]

Is it not just possible that Talisa IS Jeyne, albeit with a different name and background to fit in with Oona Chaplin's look? The letter is clearly just flirtatious banter, and however clichéd, that's all it will ever be, having Robb's wife as being a spy would be too detrimental to the story. I seriously don't see the problem with this, the Robb/Talisa storyline is a small part of a larger show. Ultimately, so long as Talisa fulfils the same role as Jeyne, then what does it matter?

[Cregan Quagg]

I'd like to point out that the creators as well as Martin himself view Talisa as a completely new character, even though she partly fills Jeyne's role.

George Martin himself came up with the name "Talisa Maegyr". The Maegyrs are a known Volantene high-ranking family. One of the current triarchs in Volantis (Malaquo) is a Maegyr.

Of course, she could still be scheming with Tywin but that would feel like a retcon for many viewers. They should have dropped some hints in S2 to make that believable, imho. The letter thing is sort of weak.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Malaquo

[ACVG]

perhaps Talisa was added by GRRM and D&D for the readers... to keep us guessing

we know all the plot twists (up to book 5 at least)

if her name remained Jeyne Westerling we would know exactly what her role would be, but since almost everything is changed about her save for her relationship and eventual marriage with Robb, it keeps us guessing

-is she a spy or not?

-does she die in the RW or not?

Things we know Sybelle Spicer worked with Tywin, if they wanted to keep with the idea that Robbs romantic interest had a hand in his betrayal then it would make sense that Talisa is a spy too , that just my opinion anyway

I think she was just put there as a medic to keep tabs on the northern army, i mean whos gonna turn away a hot medic???

Then, jackpot, Robb is interested in her, and she gets emotionally conflicted.

There were reports that Oona Chaplin was present during the filming during the RW, therefore she could go then get "smuggled off" from orders from lannisters to protect her b/c she was their spy

im calling it!

[SimonSez]

The love story would have been better to have played out an aftermath of an added fight and have Robb hurt and show Talisa administer to his wounds, have them lock eyes, end scene. Then a few scenes later, shown the two in bed at the end of an episode as a cliffhanger.

[Gigei]

Robb's storyline is a very simple one and could have easily have fallen within the time budget. Robb meets hot nobleman's daughter, gets wounded in battle, learns Bran & Rickon are dead, seeks comfort with said hottie and marries her to validate his mistake. Bingo! That's all we need. We don't need some lame romantic sub-plot with an inexplicable character change that does nothing but makes everyone dumber for having watched it.

Agreed! I don't like this Talisa plot. It has nothing to do with the actress, she is okay but it is just so unnecessary.

However, unlike many here I am guessing that this is just a straight-up love story. Talisa won't be betraying Robb at the Red Wedding, IMO. I predict that the Freys will simply off them all because of the insult, with no collusion from Talisa needed.

[Draco_Dracul]

One theory I've seen is that in a continuation of the shows tendency to combine multiple characters in to a single character, Talisa will ultimately play both the role of Jeyne Westerling (breaking Robb's engagement to one of Frey's daughters) and Jeyne Poole in serving as excuse for the Bolton's to control the North, though she wouldn't be playing Arya she would instead given them power by being the dowager lady of a house presumed extinct (as at that point all the Starks would be dead/presumed dead/disqualified from inheriting). The fact that it's such a tenuous claim is irrelevant as the real power the Bolton's have is their hostages.

[TomBadgerlock]

The love story would have been better to have played out an aftermath of an added fight and have Robb hurt and show Talisa administer to his wounds, have them lock eyes, end scene. Then a few scenes later, shown the two in bed at the end of an episode as a cliffhanger.

That isn't a good love story. It's possibly a realistic one and we know that is what GRRM strives for. Robb being honourable and wanting to preserve Jeyne's honour and all that. That's boring. No modern man or modern woman can empathise with the idea of needing to preserve someone's honour after you've taken their virginity.

The change of the storyline here was a good one. Robb and Tulisa seem to love each other as equals, which is better and more satisfying. David and Dan were never going to write a script that included Robb saying "yeah, I couldn't help myself but to have sex with her and then I figured, well, better marry her now". I seriously doubt that Tulisa is Jeyne, and I really hope she's not, as that would be an awful detriment to the story.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Talisa is not the one who wrote the letter Arya picks up. This is what that letter says:

Marching ten thousand west to Lannisport _____

the tooth. Estimate to reach you by week's end. Sco___

Robb Stark moving troops south by coast __ __ will ___

turn east at Silverhill

That is not how a letter from her would be written. This is just a distraction from her real secret.

Could the Sco___ be 'Scouts'?

The letter seems to be from a commander in charge of one of the reformed hosts.

For one, Robb can't marry a Lannister, that would be counter-productive to the RW. Talisa could be a spying for the Lannisters though, maybe the writer of the note Arya finds at Tywin's desk. But I don't see why Robb would marry a enemy spy even if he fell in love with her, he's got honorable Stark blood. She may be keeping Westerlings updated though, since Robb is on his way to attack them.

As far as Robb knows Ned Stark fathered a bastard named Jon Snow during Robert's Rebellion. Why would he decide to break his agreement instead of his honor in this case?

The note Arya finds seems to be from a battle commander saying when he will meet Tywin and what his scouts are saying at Robb Stark's movements.

TALISA = JEYNE WESTERLING

IMDB shows Oona Chaplin, our mystery girl, cast as Jeyne Westerling. So I think we can safely say she is Jeyne.

I think deep down inside D&D really want to keep close to the story but at the same time don't mind twisting about how we arrive at the main plot points. In some ways they are improving some of the slightly less refined subplots. In the books I was like "Oh god Robb! What a dumbass" when he married Jeyne. Now, however, it's a little more believable. They are breathing life or rather fleshing out events from the books that GRRM never got to.

Hooray for the show!

IMDB is a bad source for informations.

[Nymeria_Snow]

I rewatched this episode yesterday and I'm now pretty sure she's Jeyne Westerling in disguise, forced to spy for the Lannisters. Not only because she concealed her letter but this too-

Everyone is ignoring the scene where Robb is going to go to the Crag to recieve their surrender and get medical supplies and she was very apprehensive to go along.

And the fact she knew all about the maester at the Crag and the supplies he would have. I think we're going to get a reveal.

[TomBadgerlock]

No. She knew they would have a maester because there are maester's everywhere. She didn't conceal the letter. She actually held it out when he was talking to her, all he had to go was grab at it. Pretty bad spywork, that.

She was apprehensive to go the Crag because it was an invite from the King, who was betrothed elsewhere, and it was obvious that he had taken a liking to her.

[Ran]

Talisa is Talisa. That's all there is to it, really. They just made a bit of a mess of how they presented the change and the character.