41 replies to this topic

[Kaitscralt]

I think Dagmer is just a new version of Dagmer. No ulterior motives. Just another sidekick in a story that already has too many sidekicks.

[Michaelj]

sarah.jenice, on 10 May 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

As others have said, it would appear that Dagmer is taking on Ramsay's role as Reek in Clash, encouraging Theon to do be a harsh ruler.

I am very curious about how they are going to do the part with the miller's sons. There shouldn't be any way for an Ironborn man to know about that mill with boys the same ages as Bran and Rickon and have the foresight to bring Bran and Rickon's clothes to pull of that deception. I guess Theon could come up with the idea, but that doesn't really go with TV Theon's more sympathetic character. Or perhaps they come across the mill, and Dagmer suggests it to Theon, and they quickly grab clothes from the castle.

The way I see the sack of Witnerfell turning out is (if Dagmer is not somehow Ramsay) that the Bastard of Bolton appears at the same time or shortly after the remainder of Ser Rodrick's troops and maybe other Northern allies and pretends to be there to help him but kills them all and burns the castle (just like in the book). I do think if it happens like that, we will lose some of the impact of Theon's story. Reek/Ramsay's betrayal was a big surprise to me, and I think TV viewers will be missing out, and it will be hard to explain why the Boltons turn against the Starks, but I think we still have time to work it out though. Maybe Ramsay tells Theon his father wants to be King in the North, and this will pave the way for him.

I can't wait to see how this unfolds!

I can imagine TV Theon doing it as it'll come into place of his pathetic personality and trying to fix errors hes made only to make more errors. I can imagine Dagmer egging him on to do it... Thats if the producers don't think that its too sick to go on TV.

I still stick with my original post that I don't think that Dagmer is really as loyal as he seems. I  find it hard to believe that a veteran of 30 years Dagmer is foolish enough to believe that he can hold Winterfell without the north revolting. He may be loyal to Yara as someone stated? Possibly...

We know now that they are looking for a 20-30 yr old who looks creepy and looks extreme to play an important character in season 3. We can only guess its Ramsay Snow. It makes me wonder though, how will Theon and Winterfell fall? Will it be a raid from an unknown attacker? Or will he let somebody in to Winterfell? Arggh hate not knowing whats gonna happen! But judging by this it seems Ramsay won't be in it this season.. We know Winterfell will fall this season at episode 10 because of Alfies interview on thronecast. (well we don't know know but we can only guess unless the producers invented something else awesome that Alfie didn't wanna mention) So thats why I spectulated that Dagmer will betray Theon to the Boltons... Then I predict he'll hand him in to Ramsay.

Edited by Michaelj, 10 May 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[WetHair]

I agree that Dagmar doesn't seem quite "right", as in having Theon's best interests at heart.  But that may only be because I detest his advice as with each nod of his head Theon does something he doesn't truly want to do.  But I can't see what his ulterior motive would be.  I can't imagine he is really working for Asha.  There is no possible way he is Ramsay, even though he is taking on some of Ramsay's role.  He just seems evil to me with his nods and grins.

[Envie]

This whole thread of strange theories about Dagmer being Ramsay is really silly. Come on you guys, you're reaching just a tad bit too far here, don't you think?

Why do you really think they would need to twist the plot that much for a story that doesn't need it? Introducing Ramsay later is fine and can still give full impact of the betrayals to come. There's no need to morph Dagmer into anything more than he is. If anything, they've played up a character who was already pretty strikingly imposing in the books on his own merits. They're doing this to show the internal struggle Theon is having about betraying the Starks, and nothing more in my opinion.

In the book, we get a lot more detail about the ironborn and Theon's thoughts and conflicts. This is harder to show on television with just short scenes in episodes and so for many of the story lines they have added or embellished some of the characters to aid in the storytelling. If Theon had come up with this plan on his own, it may not have seemed as believable as having Dagmer, acting as the devil on his shoulder, encouraging it as well as 'paying the iron price' with Rodrik's death.

It's obvious to tv fans and book fans alike that Theon, for all his desire to be ironborn, just isn't measuring up. He wants Rodrik imprisoned, which is a much softer, kinder order from a Lord who has grown up among the more honorable Starks than the brutal Greyjoys. It's painfully obvious by now to most viewers that Theon's weaker character is NEVER going to be what the Ironborn expect of him and part of that realization comes through Dagmer's menacing presence egging him on to do these villainous acts.

It's completely reasonable to assume at this point Dagmer will be the mastermind bethind the Miller boys death / switch out and makes sense with as much screen time and antagonism they've given him thus far. It does not mean he's Ramsay in disguise, that's not only an unbelievable plot change, it would be confusing and nonsensical to both book and television fans.

[Francis Buck]

They already confirmed that Ramsay hasn't been cast this season, so Dagmer is definitely NOT Ramsay. Though I don't really know why people need confirmation for this anyway, considering how little sense it makes in the first place.

[Michaelj]

If you guys read the thread then perhaps you'd grasp that nobody in the thread has spectulated that we believed Dagmer is Ramsay.

[atia-]

I think Dagmer is just Dagmer.  I think he's loyal to Theon and is taking a lot more heat for the sacking of Winterfell than he did in the books, where he had to be heavily convinced to even participate (hell, he wasn't even at Winterfell).  He's there to make Theon look less bad, in my opinion.  But this week's episode might totally prove that wrong *shrug*  I don't think he's Reek, however.  Haven't been a big fan of that theory.

[Francis Buck]

Michaelj, on 10 May 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

If you guys read the thread then perhaps you'd grasp that nobody in the thread has spectulated that we believed Dagmer is Ramsay.

sarah.jenice, on 10 May 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

The way I see the sack of Witnerfell turning out is (if Dagmer is not somehow Ramsay)

DrogonSnow23, on 09 May 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

I don't know...I honestly think it is a possibe that Ramsay and Dagmer could be a "conjoined" character. The real Dagmer could have been killed long ago and Ramsay is posing as Dagmer to fool Theon. Maybe Yara/Asha will come back and tell Theon that Dagmer has been dead long ago and Theon will realize that Dagmer is actually someone else. I dunno, just a theory. Dagmer isn't too old to be Ramsay anyway...

The Smiling Eye, on 09 May 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Dagmer is incredibly imposing and brutal.

Not to mention in countless other threads. It is losing steam as time goes on, fortunately.

Edited by Francis Buck, 10 May 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Michaelj]

Francis Buck, on 10 May 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Not to mention in countless other threads. It is losing steam as time goes on, fortunately.

Well way to shit on me, lol. Yeah I suppose I should of double checked, but my OP is a total different theory.

[sarah.jenice]

Francis Buck, on 10 May 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Not to mention in countless other threads. It is losing steam as time goes on, fortunately.

I was just acknowledging what others have brought up. I love the many ideas that devoted fans come up with and at least give them the respect of my consideration without making them feel bad for saying it. I do not at all think it is true but felt I should include that quote out of respect for the other people who believe it is a possibility.

[Envie]

I don't think anyone has to 'feel bad' for theorizing various plot twists - its certainly done to the extreme sometimes outside of the television forums here! Just go read some of the wild theories that have been raging on for years over there in the book section haha!

But at the same time, if you're going to throw out a wild new theory, at least be prepared to back it up with some evidence and also some criticisms from those who don't think it's plausible.

I understand some people in this thread were saying perhaps Dagmer is acting the way we'd assume Ramsay did with Theon since no Ramsay has been introduced yet and likely won't be until next season. I think this embellishment of his character is perfectly acceptable and fitting for a strong leader among the ironborn men Theon's been thrown together with by his Father and gives credit to the truth of the story regardless which character portrays it.

[turdle]

i don't think dagmer has been leading theon along as some people do.  if you watch the scene where dagmer is introduced, he meerly says the cold hard truth, that theon will not be respected by his men for raiding fishing villages, it's only because we know what theon is going to do that we interpret that to mean that dagmer thinks they should therefor raid somewhere else. to me, dagmer is simply telling theon the truth, raiding fishing villages will not win him the respect of his men, letting ser rodrik live will not win him the respect of his men.  i don't think he's leading him.

also, dagmer can not be ramsey... because everyone knows he's finchy

[Bloody-Nine]

An epic twist, would be if they cast Todd Packer for Ramsay Snow.

[Cellio]

DrogonSnow23, on 09 May 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

I don't know...I honestly think it is a possibe that Ramsay and Dagmer could be a "conjoined" character. The real Dagmer could have been killed long ago and Ramsay is posing as Dagmer to fool Theon. Maybe Yara/Asha will come back and tell Theon that Dagmer has been dead long ago and Theon will realize that Dagmer is actually someone else. I dunno, just a theory. Dagmer isn't too old to be Ramsay anyway...

This is just silly. How would Ramsay have known Theon would be attacking Winterfell, why would he have been on the iron islands? It just doesn't make sense.

[congokong]

I stll don't know why they made it Dagmer's idea to sack Winterfell. The fact that it was Theon's plan was a big part of his character development in the books. Sigh*

What did Dagmer mean by Sir Roderick having to pay the iron price? Is that even how the term goes? I thought it was a reference to taking what you want. So how is Sir Roderick paying the iron price by losing his head?

[Terilien]

congokong, on 13 May 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

I stll don't know why they made it Dagmer's idea to sack Winterfell. The fact that it was Theon's plan was a big part of his character development in the books. Sigh*

Ummm it was Theon's Plan. Dagmer was just more supportive here.

A

Edited by Terilien, 13 May 2012 - 12:59 AM.

[Hear Us Roar]

How on earth would Ramsay... a random bastard get someone from the iron islands to spy for him

Edited by Hear Us Roar, 13 May 2012 - 01:02 AM.

[Talleyrand]

DrogonSnow23, on 09 May 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

I don't know...I honestly think it is a possibe that Ramsay and Dagmer could be a "conjoined" character. The real Dagmer could have been killed long ago and Ramsay is posing as Dagmer to fool Theon. Maybe Yara/Asha will come back and tell Theon that Dagmer has been dead long ago and Theon will realize that Dagmer is actually someone else. I dunno, just a theory. Dagmer isn't too old to be Ramsay anyway...

Why would Ramsay be on the Iron Islands, and in the position to be appointed first mate?
The guy playing Dagmer is 42 that's way too old for Ramsay

[SerMixalot]

i dont think the show needs Ramsey's enterance to be the same as the books.  Ramsey just shows up with a group of northerners, takes winterfell and makes Theon his reek

[congokong]

Terilien, on 13 May 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Ummm it was Theon's Plan. Dagmer was just more supportive here.

A

I recall that Dagmer suggested it in the show, and Theon realized what he was referring to.