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(Book Spoilers) Osha and Theon


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23 replies to this topic

#1 Yoren the Boysnatcher

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:19 PM

So I was watching the episode for about the fourth time (can't get enough of this one) with a buddy who, like me, is very much into the books. In the book ,Bran and crew hide in the crypts, we couldn't really recall how they were able to distract Theon/Ironborn to get to the crypt or rather if it was even necessary. However, in the show, we see Osha sleep with Theon to supposedly make sure he's knocked out when they make their escape.

Now this is something my friend brought up, I didn't really think about it at first but now I'm curious as to what others think. Why did Osha sleep with Theon? Are we really supposed to believe it was to keep him preoccupied or make sure he was asleep when they made their escape? The reason I say that is because Osha is still confronted by a guard who she has to kill. She does it quietly and without raising alarm. Why was there a need to sleep with Theon if she's capable of that? Is there any significance of her asking Theon to essentially free her, which he does and then allowing him to live?

Or are we too busy trying to find plot holes when all it really was, was HBO trying to squeak another sex scene into the show with a notable actress?

#2 It is known.

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:03 PM

I think that if she hadn't been with Theon that night and been given her freedom, she'd have been put back with the other prisoners and so wouldn't have been able to make the esape without having to kill a lot more guards and thus making the escape less likely to succeed. That's just the way I interpretted it though /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />

#3 Tadco26

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

I think that if she hadn't been with Theon that night and been given her freedom, she'd have been put back with the other prisoners and so wouldn't have been able to make the esape without having to kill a lot more guards and thus making the escape less likely to succeed. That's just the way I interpretted it though /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />


That's my interpretation as well. She needed freedom of the castle and being with Theon did that. Of course if you want to nitpick, you might ask why she didn't take Theon out while he was sleeping.

#4 Pliny

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:12 PM

I think that if she hadn't been with Theon that night and been given her freedom, she'd have been put back with the other prisoners and so wouldn't have been able to make the esape without having to kill a lot more guards and thus making the escape less likely to succeed. That's just the way I interpretted it though /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />


Ah, that makes sense! I really didn't give it a lot of thought at first, but if I had I would have chalked it up to HBO just wanting to show us a nude Nymphadora Tonks.

#5 Howdyphillip

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:02 PM

That's my interpretation as well. She needed freedom of the castle and being with Theon did that. Of course if you want to nitpick, you might ask why she didn't take Theon out while he was sleeping.


That was my question for this scene as well. If you establish the character has a knife and is willing to kill with it, then why wouldn't she have killed Theon with it to make sure she wasn't discovered sneaking out?

#6 Queen Regent

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:15 PM

That was my question for this scene as well. If you establish the character has a knife and is willing to kill with it, then why wouldn't she have killed Theon with it to make sure she wasn't discovered sneaking out?


If HBO would have killed Theon, which would have been a MAJOR deviation from the books, I think this forum would have exploded!

#7 Stargareyen

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:43 PM

That scene had so many fallacies that I don't know where to begin...

Understood, Osha wanted to be out of her chains and prison cell, so she made the move on Theon... But then...

1. She could have killed him in his sleep
2. She could have at least procured some kind of keys from him to open Bran's prison cell
3. One guard for Bran, Rickon, half-a-giant and 2 full-grown direwolves? Seriously?? Summer has shown his skills in ripping out throats before, why not repeat the same?
4. The crypt scene in the books was such a smart move to misled Theon, also wouldn't be too hard on the budget since they have shown crypts before.

As much as I love skin-shows, I was relieved to NOT see Theon popping out his tool again and doing "wild" stuff with Osha. Sure the nakedness of Osha pulled in the viewers who watch GoT for its nudity.

Edited by Stargareyen, 09 May 2012 - 04:45 PM.


#8 Ser Dermett Corbray

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:44 PM

When the scene rolled around I remember thinking "oh dear, we almost made it through an episode without a sex scene that wasn't in the books.."

But I think it worked. It seemed more plausible that Theon would flat out refuse to arm her, whereas in the book he does arm her. And in the book when his men start dying and he doesn't put two and two together... he comes across as a bit of a dumbass.

TV Theon has been presented as a guy who thinks a bit too much with his cock so it is believable that he would want to bed her, especially given how he tried to woo her in season 1.

As for why she wouldn't kill Theon... yeah there's a bit of a plot hole. Perhaps she only resorted to killing the guard because she needed to clear the path quickly? Given how Rickon, Bran, Hodor and the two direwolves were all waiting around the corner.

#9 Fylimar

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:48 PM

Maybe she believes, that with Theon gone, the fate of the people in Winterfell would be even worse.

#10 I'll pay the iron price

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:00 PM

Osha could have killed Theon but why risk someone overhearing or discovering his body before she had time to get the boys out?
Her plan was to get the Stark boys out, everything else was secondary to that!

#11 Bastard of Boston

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:03 PM

That was my question for this scene as well. If you establish the character has a knife and is willing to kill with it, then why wouldn't she have killed Theon with it to make sure she wasn't discovered sneaking out?

Osha didn't have a knife. When she killed the guard, she used his own knife to do it. The kiss was essentially her way of getting close and stealing the knife without him noticing.

#12 Buttered Turnip

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:10 PM

"4. The crypt scene in the books was such a smart move to misled Theon, also wouldn't be too hard on the budget since they have shown crypts before. "

I think they'll still go to the crypts. If i remember correctly, In the books they went to the forest then backtracked to the crypts to throw off those searching for them.

#13 SerMixalot

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:19 PM

it was for gratoutous (sp?) nudity (not that I am complianing), but you seem to be trying to justify something stupid.

#14 The Monkey

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:29 PM

The girl wanted to get her rocks off, and Theon is pretty well-equipped.

#15 Envie

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 06:08 PM

I think that if she hadn't been with Theon that night and been given her freedom, she'd have been put back with the other prisoners and so wouldn't have been able to make the esape without having to kill a lot more guards and thus making the escape less likely to succeed. That's just the way I interpretted it though /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />


This is how I read the scene as well. All of the Winterfell people and servants were rounded up and being kept as prisoners. Sure, she was a kitchen wench and could have likely gotten away anyways, but the point that she went out of her way to sleep with Theon means she was free to roam the castle at night when I'm pretty sure everyone else would be kept locked up or under very close supervision. This gave her the 'cover' she needed, which came in handy when a guard confronted her coming out of Theon's quarters.

Adding another sex scene was probably also a consideration but in this case it makes sense for how they're taking the story of Bran and crew's escape so its a win / win for all by playing it this way. All series fans are well aware of how randy Theon is, so they are far more likely to buy this deception easily.

#16 Jennelyn

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:45 PM

"4. The crypt scene in the books was such a smart move to misled Theon, also wouldn't be too hard on the budget since they have shown crypts before. "

I think they'll still go to the crypts. If i remember correctly, In the books they went to the forest then backtracked to the crypts to throw off those searching for them.


They were following footprints and pawprints in the books. The two boys had warged into their wolves and ran up the river. You don't know the boys are in the crypts until after Theon kills and mounts the other boy's heads. GRRM lets you think Theon killed them for a little while.

#17 boojam

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:50 PM

Osha didn't have a knife. When she killed the guard, she used his own knife to do it. The kiss was essentially her way of getting close and stealing the knife without him noticing.


Glad someone noticed that she didn't have a knife and had to sneak one.
By the by nothing is gratuitous when it advances the plot, so that was a plus this episode.

Edited by boojam, 09 May 2012 - 09:50 PM.


#18 Mad Queen

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:02 PM

The reason is quite clear. The writers wanted non-book readers to think Osha had betrayed the Starks and then be surprised she hadn't.

#19 Morrigan

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:20 AM

I think that if she hadn't been with Theon that night and been given her freedom, she'd have been put back with the other prisoners and so wouldn't have been able to make the esape without having to kill a lot more guards and thus making the escape less likely to succeed. That's just the way I interpretted it though /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />

In the book she got her freedom by kicking a guy in the nuts and stealing his spear. Why couldn't they have done the same? It would have worked just as well on screen, and it would have been truer to the spirit of the character. But, of course, that way lies no boobies and no nudity, so they changed it. /ack.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ack:' />

#20 Ser Giant

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:35 AM

The girl wanted to get her rocks off, and Theon is pretty well-equipped.


Not for long!