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Baelish...Sygerrik .....Bael the Bard...Seriously, though has anyone ever thought of this?


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#1 Lord Littlefinger's Lash

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:18 AM

Seriously, though has anyone ever thought of this? Baelish...Sygerrik .....Bael the Bard..a stolen....the most beautiful o’ the winter roses be plucked for the singer’s payment



“Bael the Bard made it,” said Ygritte. “He was King-beyond-the--Wall a long time back. All the free folk know his songs, but might be you don’t sing them in the south.”

“Winterfell’s not in the south,” Jon objected.

“Yes it is. Everything below the Wall’s south to us.”

He had never thought of it that way. “I suppose it’s all in where you’re standing.”

“Aye,” Ygritte agreed. “It always is.”

“Tell me,” Jon urged her. it would be hours before Qhorin came up, and a story would help keep him awake. “I want to hear this tale of yours.”

“Might be you won’t like it much.”

“I’ll hear it all the same.”

“Brave black crow,” she mocked. “Well, long before he was king over the free folk, Bael was a great raider.”

Stonesnake gave a snort. “A murderer, robber, and raper, is what you mean.”

“That’s all in where you’re standing too,” Ygritte said. “The Stark in Winterfell wanted Bael’s head, but never could take him, and the taste o’ failure galled him. One day in his bitterness he called Bael a craven who preyed only on the weak. When word o’ that got back, Bael vowed to teach the lord a lesson. So he scaled the Wall, skipped down the kingsroad, and walked into Winterfell one winter’s night with harp in hand, naming himself Sygerrik of Skagos. Sygerrik means ‘deceiver’ in the Old Tongue, that the First Men spoke, and the giants still speak.

“North or south, singers always find a ready welcome, so Bael ate at Lord Stark’s own table, and played for the lord in his high seat until half the night was gone. The old songs he played, and new ones he’d made himself, and he played and sang so well that when he was done, the lord offered to let him name his own reward. ‘All I ask is a flower’ Bael answered, ‘the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o’ Winterfell.’

“Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o’ the winter roses be plucked for the singer’s payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished... and so had Lord Brandon’s maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain.”

Jon had never heard this tale before. “Which Brandon was this supposed to be? Brandon the Builder lived in the Age of Heroes, thousands of years before Bael. There was Brandon the Burner and his father Brandon the Shipwright, but-”

“This was Brandon the Daughterless,” Ygritte said sharply. “Would you hear the tale, or no?”

He scowled. “Go on.”

“Lord Brandon had no other children. At his behest, the black crows flew forth from their castles in the hundreds, but nowhere could they find any sign o’ Bael or this maid. For most a year they searched, till the lord lost heart and took to his bed, and it seemed as though the line o’ Starks was at its end. But one night as he lay waiting to die, Lord Brandon heard a child’s cry. He followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast.”

“Bael had brought her back?”

“No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says... though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what’s certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he’d plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is-you have Bael’s blood in you, same as me.”

“It never happened,” Jon said.

She shrugged. “Might be it did, might be it didn’t.



#2 Howling Mad

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:24 AM

What's the question?

#3 Apple Martini

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:26 AM

View PostHowling4Reed, on 09 May 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

What's the question?

I think he's asking if anyone sees a parallel between Baelish taking Sansa and Bael taking Brandon's daughter. Or something.

I myself am no less creeped out by Baelish's advances toward Sansa.

#4 Dragonstar

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:32 AM

So does anything change if the lords Stark have Bael-blood in them?Does that make them Kings beyond the wall by hereditary rights? Does it make them charming? Good with words?

#5 Howling Mad

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:33 AM

View PostApple Martini, on 09 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

I myself am no less creeped out by Baelish's advances toward Sansa.
No argument here.

#6 Lord Littlefinger's Lash

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:59 AM

View PostApple Martini, on 09 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

I think he's asking if anyone sees a parallel between Baelish taking Sansa and Bael taking Brandon's daughter. Or something.
yes, precisely.

Quote


I myself am no less creeped out by Baelish's advances toward Sansa.
obviously its creepy. personally I prefer not to think about it.  though so is someone living in the crypts at winterfell for 9 months and stealing away Brandon's daughter.

Edited by Lord Littlefinger's Lash, 09 May 2012 - 01:01 AM.


#7 Apple Martini

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:01 AM

View PostLord Littlefinger, on 09 May 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

obviously its creepy. personally I prefer not to think about it.  though so is someone living in the crypts at winterfell for 9 months and stealing away Brandon's daughter.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's just a story.

#8 Lord Littlefinger's Lash

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:04 AM

View PostApple Martini, on 09 May 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

The more I think about it, the more I think it's just a story.
yes. a story. and a story george made up. a story like old nan's stories.

#9 Twookus Stark

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:47 AM

hmmm maybe this is the pregnant women bran sees asking for her son to avenge her.
I believe the rest of the story is the baby grows up and kills Bael and the mother kills herself in grief of seeing her son carrying his fathers head.
any thoughts?

#10 TheeMikeHoncho

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:55 AM

This story also parrellels Mance and his trips to Winterfell. It also makes me convinced about Mance not being captured, but hiding in the crypts.

Edited by TheeMikeHoncho, 09 May 2012 - 02:59 AM.


#11 Elba the Intoner

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:04 AM

Yes, I had thought about this for a bit.  (I like the Bael the Bard story and I took my username here from how Mance/Abel changed around the letters of Bael).  We discussed this on the Sansa chapter reread when it is revealed that Baelish took Sansa out of King's Landing.  There is somewhat of a parallel, though he did not take her directly from Winterfell.  Also the way the story ends, as mentioned above, is that Bael dies as a direct result of what he did which could foreshadow that taking Sansa in some way will lead to Petyr's downfall.

However, it more strongly seems to point to Jon's own story as more evidence of R + L = J.

ETA As I was reading over my post, the Bael - Baelish similarity jumped out at me.  Perhaps that's another sign of the similarities between the Bael story and Sansa with Petyr.

Edited by Elba the Intoner, 11 May 2012 - 07:22 AM.


#12 tze

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 09:40 AM

Bael is killed by his own kid. Baelish is pretending Sansa is his kid. Is there some foreshadowing there?

And the story ends with Bael's bastard Stark child literally losing his skin, presumably the gods' vengeance for him murdering his father. Given Baelish's proximity to Sansa, who he's pretending is his own bastard, and who GRRM says is a skinchanger (someone who "slips their skin") like her siblings (though less practiced than them) . . . the image of the "bastard" who's really a Stark losing his/her skin as a result of killing the "father", a negative thing in the Bael story, could end up being a "positive" thing (in readers' eyes) for Sansa. Perhaps she ends up murdering Baelish via skinchanger powers? Or perhaps she murders Baelish to resurrect Lady (since we know death can pay for life), thus regaining her own skin (Lady's skin) via murdering her "father"?

After all, "Baelish" isn't literally "Bael". He's "Bael-ish". Ahem. :)

Edited by tze, 09 May 2012 - 09:41 AM.


#13 Lord Littlefinger's Lash

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

View PostElba the Intoner, on 09 May 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Yes, I had thought about this for a bit. (I like the Bael the Bard story and I took my username here from how Mance/Abel changed around the letters of Bael). We discussed this on the Sansa chapter reread when it is revealed that Baelysh took Sansa out of King's Landing. There is somewhat of a parallel, though he did not take her directly from Winterfell. Also the way the story ends, as mentioned above, is that Bael dies as a direct result of what he did which could foreshadow that taking Sansa in some way will lead to Petyr's downfall. However, it more strongly seems to point to Jon's own story as more evidence of R + L = J. ETA As I was reading over my post, the Bael - Baelysh similarity jumped out at me. Perhaps that's another sign of the similarities between the Bael story and Sansa with Petyr.
Well it ends in more than one way.  


The song ends when they find the babe, but there is a darker end to the story. Thirty years later, when Bael was King-beyond-the-Wall and led the free folk south, it was young Lord Stark who met him at the Frozen Ford... and killed him, for Bael would not harm his own son when they met sword to sword.”

“So the son slew the father instead,” said Jon.

“Aye,” she said, “but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael’s head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o’ his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak.”

“Your Bael was a liar,” he told her, certain now.

“No,” Ygritte said, “but a bard’s truth is different than yours or mine. Anyway, you asked for the story, so I told it.”



#14 Lord Littlefinger's Lash

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:05 AM

View PostTheeMikeHoncho, on 09 May 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

This story also parrellels Mance and his trips to Winterfell. It also makes me convinced about Mance not being captured, but hiding in the crypts.
I wouldn't say its a parallel with Mance, since Mance is actively mimicking the story.

#15 kwvapor

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:16 AM

If Petyr and Sansa have a kid that ends up as the Lord of Winterfell, that would mean Petyr won't die until that child is grown up, if we're going by parallels.  Good guys don't live that long, and Petyr is no good guy.  Sorry he'll die way before any of his children can become a something of anything.

#16 Lord Littlefinger's Lash

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:21 AM

View PostCensored Wolf, on 09 May 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

If Petyr and Sansa have a kid that ends up as the Lord of Winterfell, that would mean Petyr won't die until that child is grown up, if we're going by parallels. Good guys don't live that long, and Petyr is no good guy. Sorry he'll die way before
and you know that, how?

Quote

any of his children can become a something of anything.
And of course there are no "good" guys.

#17 Elba the Intoner

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:25 AM

Regarding this:

A parallel would be if Sansa and Petyr had a kid who became the lord of Winterfell and the Stark line would finally be infused with some intelligence.

There is some speculation that Sweet Robin as actually LF's son with Lysa as it's more than likely that they had sex when they were together in King's Landing.  And Sans/Alayne is now a surrogate mother for Sweet Robin.  So, this does make the theory a stronger parallel when you throw this into the mix.

#18 kwvapor

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:34 AM

View PostLord Littlefinger, on 09 May 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

and you know that, how?
And of course there are no "good" guys.

Know that Petyr will die?  It's written on the wall.  It'll be a masterful bit of ink where Martin showcases his love for Petyr by killing him in the most entertaining way possible.

ETA: As for good guys, not even 1?  I hope, Westeros has a good guy hidden under a dragon somewhere.

View PostElba the Intoner, on 09 May 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

Regarding this:

A parallel would be if Sansa and Petyr had a kid who became the lord of Winterfell and the Stark line would finally be infused with some intelligence.

There is some speculation that Sweet Robin as actually LF's son with Lysa as it's more than likely that they had sex when they were together in King's Landing.  And Sans/Alayne is now a surrogate mother for Sweet Robin.  So, this does make the theory a stronger parallel when you throw this into the mix.

Maybe SR would be part of that bit of ink, and that would be sweet.

Edited by Censored Wolf, 09 May 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#19 Victarions Secret

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:40 AM

Nice catch, folks! I'm looking forward to read about this in TWOW ^^

#20 Elba the Intoner

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:42 AM

View PostCensored Wolf, on 09 May 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:




Maybe SR would be part of that bit of ink, and that would be sweet.
:agree: Yes it would!  I get a strong feeling that SR will definitely be a part of it.