465 replies to this topic

[Independent George]

...if she believes she's barren at the end of AGOT?

Does she even have one? Is she planning to just name an heir, thereby declaring before the world that she can't have children of her own, and weakening her claim? Or does she plan on faking it for 25 years, and then naming an heir after having misled the entire kingdom (and probably a highborn husband, too)? Or is she content to kill tens of thousands in an invasion, and letting tens of thousands more die in the inevitable war for succession after her own death (and possibly before it)?

Edited by Independent George, 09 May 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Pellaeon]

I believe she has no plan, she is nuts like all in her family and want what she think is hers, she believe what her brother told her and don't think what happens after she take the throne, and like we saw at slavery bay she isn't very good with ruling after her death there is either a superior line R+L=J who take the throne or chaos and another civil war

[Dr. Pepper]

I think she has no plan.  Due to her upbringing and (lack of ) education, she doesn't even know much about Westeros or it's history.  I think she truly believes that Targaryens are superior beings who deserve the throne of Westeros and she doesn't understand what the right of conquest means.  She's not a stupid girl so I assume that eventually it will hit her that if she's barren, there's a bleak future if she does conquer Westeros in her own right.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I agree. I don't she really cares so long as she sits on the Iron Throne. She might even be the one to sit there briefly and then get killed. She knows nothing of Westeros or its people. Stannis or Aegon have a much greater understanding of the Seven Kingdoms. Had she grown up with a Maester by her side things might be different but she didn't.

[eyeheartsansa]

in TV land, I think Dany's chat with the spice king in Qarth served as a reminder to her that she really has no plan.

So far, the plan she thinks she has, is something like:

burn up all the bad guys/usurpers
make people love me because I rescued them from the bad guys
rule a fairy tale kingdom of happy children and prosperous fat people.

I believe she's fully aware that it's more complicated than that, especially after the Mereen episode, but this is what it boils down to, I think.

And I say this as one of her staunchest supporters.

Edited by eyeheartsansa, 09 May 2012 - 07:38 AM.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

She reminds me of the Underpants Gnomes from South Park. She isn't really sure what her business model is.

[David Selig]

I've never understood why she believes she's barren just because Mirri told her so. Mirri had all the reasons in the world to lie just to make Dany miserable.

[eyeheartsansa]

David Selig, on 09 May 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

I've never understood why she believes she's barren just because Mirri told her so. Mirri had all the reasons in the world to lie just to make Dany miserable.

yeah, her reproductive status seems like a big wild card at this point.

[Lummel]

Independent George, on 09 May 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

...if she believes she's barren at the end of AGOT?...

I don't see this as an issue.  She believes that she has a right to the iron throne, we don't know if she is convinced of MMD's prophecy.  For her the question is does she believe that she is capable of ruling Westeros while she lives.  If she can not give birth to an heir then she can look to dig up some kind of cousin, or adopt a likely heir or if that fails a Great Council can make a decision after she is gone - and there is precedent for that.

Renly didn't seem to be troubled by this question either, Stannis' ability to found a line depends on a child who has survived greyscale, King Bob was lusty and fertile but failed to produce a legitimate heir.  Succession is a lottery.

[Silver Spearwife]

David Selig, on 09 May 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

I've never understood why she believes she's barren just because Mirri told her so. Mirri had all the reasons in the world to lie just to make Dany miserable.

*shrug* Well, prophecies are as common in Dany's life as snow is on the Wall. She believes in a Maegi's words, and, despite what she claims, at times she really is a young girl who knows nothing. I rather suspect that if she were alive today, she'd be one of those people that goes to psychics and then makes future plans based on the predictions she heard (course, in ASOIAF, prophecies have some basis - still, she doesn't really question the existence of Quaithe, which is a little disconcerting).

As for the question at hand. I don't think the thought's even crossed her mind. It's brought up in Meereen when Hizdahr's family wants to make sure she's fertile, but she doesn't consider that Westeros would want the same thing of their queen. If she really believes she's barren, she should at least recognize that the line ends with her, no matter how glorious her return to Westeros is. The line could still theoretically continue through the male Targaryens running around (pretenders, secret, or even bastards like Aurane that could theoretically be legitimized), but Dany doesn't really know about any of them.

She hasn't told anyone about it so she must recognize that it's probably an issue, but this seems to be another instance of her willing blindness ("If I look back, I am lost" is a pretty poor life philosophy - has she never heard of learning from her mistakes?). If someone like, say, Barristan knew about this little hiccup, he'd probably tell her that the lack of an heir would just create another succession crisis when she dies and her taking the throne would only forestall it. Even if she's a perfect queen who reigns through the long night and manages to keep Westeros entirely happy, fed, and at peace, there's no way to avoid that little dilemma.

Wow, that was a lot longer than I intended...

[SerMixalot]

I figure her plan involves fire and blood, but I could be mistaken, it may be blood and fire.

[SerMixalot]

hmmm it just occured to me that Dany falls into the category of those throne seekers who are doing it for selfish reason.

I WILL TAKE WHAT IS MINE>>>

Davos pointed out to Stannis, that perhaps he should be thinking of his responsibilities and not his rights.

[kwvapor]

Dany really doesn't have much of a plan besides blood and fire.

But, this will change, if Tyrion and Maester what's his face that took off after Sam talked to him is coming to give her guidance.  We know Dany isn't good for a lot of things but she listens to good counsel.  After the fire battle, it is possible to have a small counsel with knowledge and strategy to back her up.  Although, among her counsel will be some idiots that also yell blood and fire, this is the stage Martin wants to create more drama and entertain us.

[Fearsome Fred]

Plant trees.  Sadly, it's just not to be ...

[eyeheartsansa]

Quote

(course, in ASOIAF, prophecies have some basis - still, she doesn't really question the existence of Quaithe, which is a little disconcerting)

That's not entirely true.. in ADWD she asks quaithe, "are you here?" and Quaithe says "no."

Her ability to appear and disappear, getting through all the layers of security, and not being seen by Missandei is definitely noticed.

As for the question of producing an heir.. it seems she is just going to cross that bridge when she gets to it.  She's aware of the issue but there's not much she can do about it.. either she's barren or she isn't - but it's not enough to make her give up on her conquest.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

It is so to be. I don't understand how Dany won't take out the 7 kingdoms. She has at least 2 dragons, alot of Unsullied and every Dothraki at her disposal, but what to do after... It's possible that she doesn't belive Mirri.
But if Aegon I could turn Westeros from seven monarchies into one fuedal government, why can't Dany turn a fudeal government into a republic? Her main goal though is to get the Barathon usurpers off the throne and kill Jaime. Speaking of HBO, when Dany was arguing "grammer" I took her side. The dragon is back to reclaim the Iron Throne. (Or make it into a nice Democratic society)

Edited by Grumpkin Ahai, 09 May 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

Silver Spearwife, on 09 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

If I look back, I am lost" is a pretty poor life philosophy - has she never heard of learning from her mistakes.

That's not what she means when she tells herself this. It means "don't second guess yourself in the moment or everyone around you will sense your weakness."

She needs to be decisive since everyone looks to her to make decisions. Looking back  = being indecisive. If she always looks back she'll be paralyzed.

Edited by QuaitheTheShadow, 09 May 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[WhiteWalder]

She loves blood and fire.  I'm thinking she's gonna go Mad Queen on everybody.  Jamie will be a Kingslayer and a Queenslayer in the end.

[Winter's Lady]

I don't think she has a plan.
Her goal for now is conquer the Seven Kingdoms and sit on the Iron Throne. What comes after that, well, I don't think she has any idea.
One more reason why I don't like her.

[tze]

She doesn't even have an actual battle plan for conquering the Seven Kingdoms. I sincerely doubt a question as long-term as "What happens when I die?" has occurred to her.