118 replies to this topic

[Lady Hodor]

So we all know (presuming you've read it) that in a Dance with Dragons, Stannis offers Jon Winterfell.
He has the oppertunity to follow after Ned and become Lord Jon Stark, with Val as his wife.
Yet he says no, again and again, because he wishes to stay loyal to the Night's Watch.
And of course for other internal reasons of his bastardry and his feelings of being an outsider.

But, the Night's Watch have now betrayed him, stabbed him, and rejected him as Lord Commander.
So, now that's possibly out of the way, does that mean Jon's loyalty to them will fall and fail?

Assuming that it might, and assuming Jon is the product of Rhaegar and Lyanna,
Do you think that maybe, if a time does arise that he learns of his royal bloodline,
He will leave the Night's Watch to take up his Targaryen Claim to the throne?

It make some sense. It means he will feel a part of something, knowing his parentage.
It also gives him a chance to become involved in the thick of the war, and the main narrative.
Maybe it can even connect with his wildling alliance, bringing them in as an army?

Thoughts?

This is of course, presuming he has not met an untimely death.

Edited by Lady Hodor, 09 May 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[etu]

Possibly. I would like to see that storyline.

I would also like to see Jon reject that throne again, take up the Night's Watch again and continue his service - possibly in preparation for the final offer which he does take; it wouldn't be the first thing happening in threes after all.

So I'm torn.

[SirPipeWeed]

I think he would reject the claim, I think being lord of Winterfell would be much more satisfying to him than sitting on the Iron Throne, so for me, I just don't see why he would accept that if he is indeed Rhaegar Targaryean's son.

[WhiteWalder]

I would also like to see the storyline as well.  If it does happen will he be for or against Dany and Aegon?

[Deets]

I'd be mad if he stayed with the Watch after that epic bro-trayal.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

He was down to leave the Nights Watch. He didn't want to be Lord of Wintefell because Melisandre and Stannis likes to burn trees like a rasta. There are no Weirwoods in the South. All hail King Jon Targaryen (who has dreamed of being King in the past)

[Dr. Pepper]

I think Jon is extremely unlikely to accept a Targaryen claim.  It won't matter who is bio father and mother are.  He was raised by the Starks, he was loved by the Starks and he loved the Starks and the North and Winterfell.  He has no connection, other than blood, to the Targs. If he finds out his mother was Lyanna and his father Rhaegar, I think he'd have even more respect for the man who claimed him as his son because Ned did so to protect him and I think Jon will recognize that.  It would be a pretty brutal betrayal to turn his back on the family who raised and loved him. Not to mention, Jon simply isn't interested in thrones and power.


Note: I'm not including Cat as part of the Starks.

[FuzzyJAM]

If the ultimate reveal of the series results in "Hurr durr, bastard child is actually the king and gets to rule the world!!" then I'm going to be seriously disappointed.   I've been convinced in "R+L=J" since about the first couple hundred pages of GoT, but I sincerely hope GRRM has less of a cliché ending in sight - something subversive of the trope more than following it; preferably a rejection of the "right to rule" or something similar.  


That said, it is of course worth noting that Jon's "watch" has ended - it lasts until your death, which has occurred with Jon.  Assuming he comes back, he is no longer bound by his oath to the NW.  He can do whatever he wants.

[Budj]

Isn't the fact he was raised in the North and potentially become King of the seven kingdoms what would actually bind the entire continent together?

A huge world threat that brings Westeros united to fight it under a person who embodies both southern ruling history and northern ruling history...sounds like a recipe for a "long summer" aka peace-time to me...

I'm not so convinced he would turn down his "birth right" - he only turns down Winterfell out of honor and feeling like it isn't truly his.  And of course turning his back on the old gods.

[SirPipeWeed]

So let's say Stannis would have offered Winterfell and the title as Jon Stark warden of the north and Lord of Winterfell, AFTER the Nights Watch betrayal.....  Would he say no then?  I mean that would totally change the story and we wouldn't know that yet, but.... I'm thinking he only said no to Stannis because he is loyal to the Watch.

Edited by SirPipeWeed, 09 May 2012 - 12:40 PM.

[Winter's Lady]

Dr. Pepper, on 09 May 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think Jon is extremely unlikely to accept a Targaryen claim.  It won't matter who is bio father and mother are.  He was raised by the Starks, he was loved by the Starks and he loved the Starks and the North and Winterfell.  He has no connection, other than blood, to the Targs. If he finds out his mother was Lyanna and his father Rhaegar, I think he'd have even more respect for the man who claimed him as his son because Ned did so to protect him and I think Jon will recognize that.  It would be a pretty brutal betrayal to turn his back on the family who raised and loved him. Not to mention, Jon simply isn't interested in thrones and power.


Note: I'm not including Cat as part of the Starks.

^This

IMO Jon identifies too much with the Starks to accept a Targaryen claim. He didn't take up Stannis's offer to become Lord of Winterfell because he would have had to forsake the Old Gods, but that's as far as his interests in power would go I think. No desire to sit on the Iron Throne. He wants to be a real Stark, not a Targaryen.

Just my two cents.

[kg1982]

Dragons and armies and the authority to order lords to so what you want come in handy when fighting zombie apocalypses.  Jon might use his claim to the Iron Throne to get what he needs to defeat the Others thinking that he'll either die or be able to walk away from everything after the war.

[LuisDantas]

I just can't see Jon accepting a throne as a Targaryen.

As an Stark, duly authorized by Robb's letter or by Rickon?  Sure.

But after all he has gone through as a bastard, I doubt he will ever feel confortable in taking any throne due to just an accident of birth.

For that matter, I don't think he has too positive an opinion of Kings, either.

He might well end up Lord of Winterfell and a legitimized Stark - the Old Gods know that he has earned that aplenty.  But not a King.

Well, not a King of Westeros.  A title of King of the North would fit him just fine...

Edited by LuisDantas, 09 May 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[Dr. Pepper]

SirPipeWeed, on 09 May 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

So let's say Stannis would have offered Winterfell and the title as Jon Stark warden of the north and Lord of Winterfell, AFTER the Nights Watch betrayal.....  Would he say no then?  I mean that would totally change the story and we wouldn't know that yet, but.... I'm thinking he only said no to Stannis because he is loyal to the Watch.

Yeah, I think he'd say no again.  I don't think his sole decision to reject Stannis' offer had to do with not wanting to burn down the godswood.  I think he also knew that if he broke his vows to the Night's Watch his bannermen wouldn't trust him not to ignore his responsibilities as their liege lord.  This would be true even if he got out of his vows based on a technicality or a betrayal.  If the Old Bear had survived his betrayal at Craster's Keep, could you see him saying, "Fuck this shit, I'm going back to reclaim my island" and leaving the Night's Watch?

[David Selig]

I don't see any non-cheesy way for Jon to convince enough people that he really is a Targ so he could be a realistic contended for the throne based on it. Howland Reed? Yeah, right, as if any lord except Ned would believe a crannogman on such a thing.

And if you are a lord who's a Targ supporter, why support Jon and his really dubious claim, when there are two claimants who look like Targs, one has Jon Connington and the Golden Company to back his claim, the other dragons and nobody can doubt she really is the daughter of Aerys?

[Val the Wildling Princess]

No, I actually see Jon giving a fuck about being a Targaryen. If he didn't accept Stannis offer is cause it came at a cost. Had he accepted Winterfell he would have to forsake the Old Gods and burn the GodsWood. It was when Ghost came back from beyond the Wall, Jon realized that he looked like a weirdwood tree and that his gods were the Old Gods.

Edited by Val the Wildling Princess, 09 May 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[FuzzyJAM]

David Selig, on 09 May 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

I don't see any non-cheesy way for Jon to convince enough people that he really is a Targ so he could be a realistic contended for the throne based on it. Howland Reed? Yeah, right, as if any lord except Ned would believe a crannogman on such a thing.

And if you are a lord who's a Targ supporter, why support Jon and his really dubious claim, when there are two claimants who look like Targs, one has Jon Connington and the Golden Company to back his claim, the other dragons and nobody can doubt she really is the daughter of Aerys?

Jon has Bloodraven and his apprentice.  


TRAP CARD ACTIVATED.

[Buckwheat]

I cannot see Jon taking the Iron Throne even if he had that possibility. His honour will not allow him to do that, since the men of the Nightswatch serve for their life. He may become Lord of Winterfell and the North some day, if the Watch is disbanded (which I do not see coming either), or the King of the Free Folk, but why would he be interested in sitting on a throne he has never seen, in a keep he has never visited, ruling over people he does not know? That is not the way Eddard learned.

[Apple Martini]

Remember that Jon didn't take Winterfell only because 1. it was not Stannis' to give and 2. it would mean rejecting his family's gods. I don't think it's accurate to say that he just up and rejected Winterfell, without mentioning the real reason why. I think there's a good chance that if Robb's will legitimized Jon and named Jon as Robb's heir, he would take that offer. It wasn't the offer itself that gave him trouble; it was the conditions attached, and it was from whom the offer came.

As for a Targaryen claim, I actually don't see Jon being tickled about learning that news (he identifies so strongly with being Ned's son that I think learning otherwise could cause emotional distress). And I don't see him actively seeking the Iron Throne.

[Hear Us Roar]

I don't see that. He will remain at his post most likely. Saved by Ghost or Mellisandre. Although he will have to go south to rally help for the war with the others

Edited by Hear Us Roar, 09 May 2012 - 01:57 PM.