405 replies to this topic

[Lady Lea]

Fearsome Fred, on 09 May 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.

This is the saddest.

Exitao, on 10 May 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

The game the Walders like to play at Winterdfell and then the "mayhaps" at the wedding.

What mayhaps?

[Artemis]

Lady Lea, on 11 June 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

This is the saddest.

This is the quote. I'm just re-posting it since it doesn't come up when I re-quote you.

Quote

The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.

Then, Ned says to Arya later in AGoT:

Quote

"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths."

See, I view these 2 quotes together because they could imply Arya's death but it also may not.

When you look at the quotes together, both Jon and Eddard talk about Arya having to pull her act together by winter. The lone wolf will die, the one who hides will die.

I do think she might have a chance of surviving if she stops trying to "hide" in Braavos (she's hiding her true self by attempting to become a "faceless" man), confronting the truths of her past, and remembering that she is a Stark of Winterfell - her pack- and that "winter is [seriously] coming".
I can see her coming back to Westeros at the very latest by the end of TWoW to reclaim her identity and her family back.

Edited by Artemis, 11 June 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Last Eye of Bloodraven]

I can't see the Dothraki as heavy horses.
The way they ride and fight are more in tune with light cavalry.

What about Ned's dream of ToJ fight where 3 kingsguard dies (including its captain) against 5 of his men to wake up to 5 Lannisters man dead to 3 of his man (including his captain) and the fall of Targ house at that point and of his house in the present.

[Fragile Bird]

Yes, but go back now and look for comments from characters that turned out not to be foreshadowing.  I would exercise great caution in interpreting some of the statements you read, because I think some of them are just GRRM yanking your chain.

I'm too lazy to look it up, I'm about to go to bed, but I know at one point Jon has a nightmare about being in Winterfell, down in the crypts, I think, and voices scream out at him that he doesn't belong there, he's not a Stark.  Is there anyone who thinks he's not a Stark?

I'm always bothered by people who tell me something is going to happen, someone is doomed, because of somebodies's dream, or some comment that shows that something is obviously going to happen.  Nothing is obvious in GRRM's world until it actually happens, IMHO.

[Last Eye of Bloodraven]

LF takes a mockingbird for his personal sigil.

Robert Arryn is called Sweet Robin.

[The Drunkard]

I haven't noticed most of these, and those I did have been stolen ( ), but this is a great topic.

[Silmarien]

Fragile Bird, on 11 June 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Yes, but go back now and look for comments from characters that turned out not to be foreshadowing.  I would exercise great caution in interpreting some of the statements you read, because I think some of them are just GRRM yanking your chain.

I'm too lazy to look it up, I'm about to go to bed, but I know at one point Jon has a nightmare about being in Winterfell, down in the crypts, I think, and voices scream out at him that he doesn't belong there, he's not a Stark.  Is there anyone who thinks he's not a Stark?

I'm always bothered by people who tell me something is going to happen, someone is doomed, because of somebodies's dream, or some comment that shows that something is obviously going to happen.  Nothing is obvious in GRRM's world until it actually happens, IMHO.

Sure, Jon isn't a Stark.  He's a Targ.    (Stark on his mom's side)

[Harland Flint]

Sorry for the call back, but

tze, on 28 May 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

In one game the dragon defeats the elephants, in another game one side's dragon wins because the other side's dragon is too far away, and in another game, the elephants (and heavy horse) kill the dragon. I wonder if these games foreshadow the outcomes of future conflicts between Dany and Aegon

Apple Martini, on 28 May 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

The cyvasse stuff struck me as possible foreshadowing when I read it... one game where the dragon wins, another game where one dragon is used against a side that also has a dragon, and one where the dragon loses. Question is, are three different dragons involved, or is there overlap? Like, does Drogon defeat the elephants in round one only to go down in round three? Or does Drogon defeat the elephants in round one, Rhaegal is used successfully because of Viserion's absence in round two, and Viserion dies in round three? Rhetorical, obviously, but it's worth thinking about.

Who says the "dragons" represent "dragons"? In many character's dreams a dragon represents a Targaryen. I think that the Cyvasse games will predict something like: Round one is Jon defeating a bunch of elephants (Others?) between the mountains (the Wall); round two is Aegon winning because Dany is too far away; and round three is Jon, Aegon or Dany being defeated.

[Evamitchelle]

Lady Lea, on 11 June 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

What mayhaps?

In Winterfell the two Walders play a game called Lord of the Crossing, in which the goal is to become Lord of the Crossing. One player is lord and tries to prevent the other player from crossing, the second player has to swear oaths to the lord, but if he manages to say "mayhaps" without the lord noticing, all the oaths are rendered null. Lord Walder says "mayhaps" right before the Red Wedding, thus making all the oaths he swore to Robb and Edmure null.

The wiki explains the game much better : http://awoiaf.wester...of_the_crossing

[Winter's Knight]

Harland Flint, on 12 June 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Who says the "dragons" represent "dragons"? In many character's dreams a dragon represents a Targaryen. I think that the Cyvasse games will predict something like: Round one is Jon defeating a bunch of elephants (Others?) between the mountains (the Wall); round two is Aegon winning because Dany is too far away; and round three is Jon, Aegon or Dany being defeated.

Mammoths. Jon has already defeated mammoths.
Meereen will fall to the Yunkai because Dany's too far away.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Harland Flint, on 12 June 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Who says the "dragons" represent "dragons"? In many character's dreams a dragon represents a Targaryen. I think that the Cyvasse games will predict something like: Round one is Jon defeating a bunch of elephants (Others?) between the mountains (the Wall); round two is Aegon winning because Dany is too far away; and round three is Jon, Aegon or Dany being defeated.

I agree, but I read the games as:
Game 1: Dragon defeats elephants = Dany defeats the Voltanese fleet on it's way to attack her in Meereen right now.

Game 2: Aegon wins most of Westeros because either Jon or Dany is too far away at the moment to stop him.  Jon is still at the Wall or Dany is still at sea.

Game 3:  Harder to interpret this one.  But I actually think it could represent a defeat of Dany.  Like the Voltanese and Dothraki turn on her maybe?  Or even Aegon and the Golden Company attack and defeat her?  The Golden company has elephants and Aegon will probably have many Southron Knights (heavy horse) in his service by the time she gets to Westeros.

Edited by Ser Wun Wun, 12 June 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[Amitaibs3]

[I'm doing a 1+1]
Perhaps the games foreshadow dany's death\lost?
I think in all 3 times the Dragon represents Dany -
Game 1 : "

Dragon defeats elephants = Dany defeats the Voltanese fleet on her way to attack her in Meereen right now."

- Ser Wun Wun
Game 2 : "

Meereen will fall to the Yunkai because Dany's too far away. "

-Winter's Knight
Game 3 : Dany loses...? The battle over Westeros? Maybe... I don't know.
Any thoughts?

Edited by Amitaibs3, 12 June 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[RoamingRonin]

"In the streets, they call it the Red Messenger," Varys said. "They say it comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow." -- Varys to Tyrion in Clash of Kings about the comet. A shaded comment referencing the arrival of Aegon later in the series.

[Bushido]

That goes well in line that comet is connected with dragons.

[Teal'c]

Fragile Bird, on 11 June 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Yes, but go back now and look for comments from characters that turned out not to be foreshadowing.  I would exercise great caution in interpreting some of the statements you read, because I think some of them are just GRRM yanking your chain.

I'm too lazy to look it up, I'm about to go to bed, but I know at one point Jon has a nightmare about being in Winterfell, down in the crypts, I think, and voices scream out at him that he doesn't belong there, he's not a Stark.  Is there anyone who thinks he's not a Stark?

I'm always bothered by people who tell me something is going to happen, someone is doomed, because of somebodies's dream, or some comment that shows that something is obviously going to happen.  Nothing is obvious in GRRM's world until it actually happens, IMHO.

Is there a chance that they are telling Jon he doesn't belong there, not because he isn't a Stark, but because he isn't dead? This may foreshadow his survival of the Ides of Marsh.

[Bushido]

^ Sam would agree

Is it possible that we misunderstood that paragraph? Are they really telling that he doesn't belong there or is it just Jon's interpretation?

[Jolene Brown]

I'm the biggest cheeseball in the world but I have high hopes for that moment when Jaime and Brienne are first surrounded by the Bloody Mummers and he tells them they have just caught him chastising his lady wife.  Wished for foreshadowing.

[devilrob6]

I don't know the exact quote but i remember Ned talking about Benjen, i think when Yoren was their guest at the table. And Bran blurts out that the Children of the Forest might help him.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

tze, on 28 May 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

We get multiple instances of potential foreshadowing in the game of cyvasse. Dany and Aegon seem likely to clash, and militarily, we have Dany associated with dragons and Aegon associated with elephants.

In AFFC, Myrcella plays against Trystane Martell:



When Tyrion plays against Aegon, however, Tyrion's dragon traps Aegon's king while Aegon's own dragon is too far away to save him.

And when Tyrion plays against Brown Ben Plumm,



In one game the dragon defeats the elephants, in another game one side's dragon wins because the other side's dragon is too far away, and in another game, the elephants (and heavy horse) kill the dragon. I wonder if these games foreshadow the outcomes of future conflicts between Dany and Aegon (or even Dany and Volantis---a city associated, in part, with elephants).

No, clue what these represent so i'm just spit balling, and looking into the past not the future, First game, Robert loses to Tarly who fought for the dragons, the second is the battle of the bells which Robert wins because Rhegar is too far away, and the third represents Arey's whose kingdom is in ruins, his dragon (Rhegar) is dead and the enemies are closing in on him

[Arionis]

Theon I ACOK

He prided himself keeping his weapons sharp.