102 replies to this topic

[Lady Hodor]

Evidently Euron has a lot of power and control over the Iron Islands and the Ironborn in general.
And there's some mystery to his past of exploring Asshai with a crew of mutes that leaves him questionable.
It would seem he's clever enough or cunning enough to manipulate his enemies and control his own.
He also has the... charisma? To rally people to his cause, as we saw in a Feast for Crows.

But does he really have the potential to conquer all of Westeros as Aegon did?

He has no dragons, but supposedly he has the horn that can command them to his will.
But we've no proof that is true yet, whether or not it does will obviously effect his conquering.
And, well, he's not exactly a nice guy, no one the people could love as their king, respectfully fear maybe.
He wants to marry Daenerys, but I can't imagine she would agree to marrying him.

He also has the rivalry of Asha and Victarion to trouble him, not to mention the rest of Westeros.
None of the Seven Kingdoms seem to respect the Ironborn, they're often spoken of with disdain.
So likely they would despise a man from there who sought to usurp their Baratheon seat.

His fleet is certainly a threat to Westeros, at least the parts accessable by sea.
But the rest is fairly safe from them, seeing as they are more formidable by ship than land.
The second they tread too far from the sea, they are out of their comfort and their forte, and doomed.
Though not necessarily, they might surprise us with their battle skill.

He's also not as well known as the other rising kings, everyone knew of Renly, Stannis, Robb and Balon,
But few people mention Euron, he's less reknwoned and less revered, which could damage his chances.

So what do you think? Will Euron destroy his enemies with sea and salt? Or die a watery, bloody grave?

[eyeheartsansa]

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He wants to marry Daenerys, but I can't imagine she would agree to marrying him.

Oh I can definitely see his appeal to Dany.  He (or his people) fought in a war against the usurpers Robert and Ned.  He's charming and good looking.  He's a bad-boy pirate.  And he's smart enough not let Dany see how demented he is.  He gets my pick for Most Interesting Dany Suitor.

[David C. Hunter]

I can see Euron teaming with Dany and 'trying to conquer the 7 kingdoms' but they wont do it

[Thunderfist]

I´ve always had the feeling that Aeron Damphair will kill Euron, I don´t really know how or when but it just feels right

[Jaehaerys Sand]

If he gets together with Dany, then Oh My 7 Hells Yes. Euron's a great long term planner, good at rallying people to his cause, and with Dany will have a large enough army to due the deed.

Plus between Dany and Euron I think they would make a decent ruling team. Dany is too emotional at the moment, but she actually cares about people and is willing to sit through the more boring parts of ruling, and Euron can make good strategic decisions.

[Lan the Clever]

No. The only people who would support him would be the Ironborn, and they are pillagers, not conquerers (in the sense of being rulers).

[Winterfell is Burning]

He appeared too late in the books to have a chance.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I don't think Euron and Dany will be allies, if anything I think she will destroy him.  There are two lines in the books that I think foreshadow this.

One is in Aeron Damphair's first chapter in AFFC.  He says 'No woman could defeat Euron' or something like that.  I think Aeron is one of those characters, like Melisandre maybe, who whatever he says, you just assume the opposite is true.

The second is from Dany's first chapter of ASOS where she is watching her dragons hunt, and she says something like 'one day they will be able to pluck krakens straight from the sea.'

This doesn't fall under the topic of the thread, but I actually think that entire Dany chapter is full of foreshadowing for her future story arc, her interactions with the Dragons in particular.  She scolds Rhaegal at one point for trying to take food from Viserion and Drogon and says something like 'I'll have no greedy dragons,' and I think this points to one of the dragons being used against Dany later in the story, probably by Aegon I think.

Edited by Ser Wun Wun, 10 May 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Anvilbreaker]

Euron is very similar to daario if you ask me. I have no reason to think that Dany is through having terrible taste in men, so why shouldn't she go for the insane pirate king?

[Manderly is Boss]

The envoy he is sending to treat with her hates him with a passion, probably not a wise idea really.

[BondJamesBond]

I see major flaws in his plan.

First, if he wants Dany then sending his brother after her was a big mistake.  Euron is too egotistical to inspire loyalty in the people who should be his closest allies (Victarian, asha).  In any event, getting Dany is a huge longshot.

Second, he just took over a few rocks in the river (forget the name) on the way to oldtown.  He hasn't done anything.  The power of the reach will destroy him.  Sure, it will divert the tyrells from supporting the iron throne, but ultimately the tyrells will protect their turf.  

Third, it was a big mistake not going for casterly rock since the Lannisters are divided internally and geographically.  Casterly rock, or at least lannisport, was the best rich target on the western coast.  Even if they take oldtown, the reach still has highgarden as a base of power to take it back.  Casterly rock is all the Lannisters have in the west in terms of major power centers that are close by.

Fourth, trying to take over all westeros is just too ambitious.  The ironmen don't have siege engines or skilled cavalry.  They don't even have a navy really.  Their ships are basically troop transport vessels that would get wasted by any decent navy.  They needed to focus on just getting a major city by the coast and getting a power base.

Finally, I think his magic horn is just a bs story to get support.

There is no doubt Euron is a very dangerous man, but his plan is just too crazy to work.

Edited by BondJamesBond, 10 May 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[The Smiling Eye]

Yes, he's got all the traits for the job. And to add to that, he's got even more hiding that we don't know of. IMO Euron is the most dangerous player of the game.

[Lady Hodor]

I never really thought Euron to be like Daario, but I suppose he is in some ways. I wouldn't say he's as charming or appealing.
But he does have that "Bad boy" element as Eyeheartsansa put it.

As for the horn, I think it is a fake too. Here's my theory.
Euron has the horn of joramun capable of breaking down the Wall.
And the Night's watch had the horn capable of controlling dragons.
A bit of a mix up mash up mistake in which they mistakedly believed they had the right horn, when that is not the case.
If that (crackpot) theory is true, then Melisandre has burned the dragon horn, so Dany's dragons are safe.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

I see Euron as a bad guy version of Quentyn. He's going to get in way over his head and the whole Ironborn will suffer for it. There only chance is to listen to Asha but even then its probably too late.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

BondJamesBond, on 10 May 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

First, if he wants Dany then sending his brother after her was a big mistake.  Euron is too egotistical to inspire loyalty in the people who should be his closest allies (Victarian, asha).  In any event, getting Dany is a huge longshot.

This could be a rouse to send Vict halfway around the world with the fleet, leaving Euron's grip on power in the Iron Islands secure. The horn, if blown, may send the dragons to the horns owner who is Euron not Vict.

He set Vict up.

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Second, he just took over a few rocks in the river (forget the name) on the way to oldtown.  He hasn't done anything.  The power of the reach will destroy him.  Sure, it will divert the tyrells from supporting the iron throne, but ultimately the tyrells will protect their turf.  

This victory gave him the street cred to send the iron fleet over to Essos and netted the iron men a lot of loot. I don't think he intends to hold the Shields. He's a pirate. He reaves.

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Third, it was a big mistake not going for casterly rock since the Lannisters are divided internally and geographically.  Casterly rock, or at least lannisport, was the best rich target on the western coast.  Even if they take oldtown, the reach still has highgarden as a base of power to take it back.  Casterly rock is all the Lannisters have in the west in terms of major power centers that are close by.

It's not his goal to conquer Westeros by conventional means or hold it with an army.

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Fourth, trying to take over all westeros is just too ambitious.  The ironmen don't have siege engines or skilled cavalry.  They don't even have a navy really.  Their ships are basically troop transport vessels that would get wasted by any decent navy.  They needed to focus on just getting a major city by the coast and getting a power base.

I don't think he really plans on taking over Westeros. He said this to win the Kingsmoot. He wants a dragon and seems to sense that Westeros is about to be wrecked by the others. The dragons could keep his fleet safe while they pillage a dying Westeros (his line about crows feeding on a dead Westeros confirms this).

Edited by QuaitheTheShadow, 11 May 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Lady Hodor, on 10 May 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Evidently Euron has a lot of power and control over the Iron Islands and the Ironborn in general. And there's some mystery to his past of exploring Asshai with a crew of mutes that leaves him questionable. It would seem he's clever enough or cunning enough to manipulate his enemies and control his own. He also has the... charisma? To rally people to his cause, as we saw in a Feast for Crows. But does he really have the potential to conquer all of Westeros as Aegon did?

Yes.

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He has no dragons, but supposedly he has the horn that can command them to his will.

There's no proof that Dany can control her Dragons. Or that she is ever going to make it to Westeros.

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But we've no proof that is true yet, whether or not it does will obviously effect his conquering. And, well, he's not exactly a nice guy, no one the people could love as their king .

I love him.  Why wouldn't they love him? Being, "nice" is not a very useful quality in a lord. Edmure was nice and invited ruin and suffering upon his people. Having all your food stolen, you house set afire and  having your wife you yourself being raped is not like to engender much love.

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, respectfully fear maybe. He wants to marry Daenerys,

He wants Dragons. I presume he would simply feed Danny to Drogon

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but I can't imagine she would agree to marrying him. He also has the rivalry of Asha and Victarion to trouble him

Trouble him how? Victarion scampering across half the world.  Asha is a prisoner and not be mention married to Eric Ironmaker, with a seal sitting in for her at the moment.  So far the seal is putting Asha to shame.  Unless its also been captured by Stannis.

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, not to mention the rest of Westeros. None of the Seven Kingdoms seem to respect the Ironborn, they're often spoken of with disdain.

That didn't stop them from ruling the Riverlands

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So likely they would despise a man from there who sought to usurp their Baratheon seat.

“The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends,” Ser Jorah told her. “It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace.” He gave a shrug. “They never are.”

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His fleet is certainly a threat to Westeros, at least the parts accessable by sea. But the rest is fairly safe from them, seeing as they are more formidable by ship than land. The second they tread too far from the sea, they are out of their comfort and their forte, and doomed.

Doomed how? Wouldn't Randyll Tarly prefer to Lord of Highgarden and Lord Paramount of the Reach, instead of cow-towing to Mace Tyrell? As Roose Bolton preferred the Tywin to Robb

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Though not necessarily, they might surprise us with their battle skill. He's also not as well known as the other rising kings, everyone knew of Renly, Stannis, Robb and Balon

And that worked out so well for them?

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, But few people mention Euron, he's less reknwoned and less revered, which could damage his chances. So what do you think? Will Euron destroy his enemies with sea and salt? Or die a watery, bloody grave?

[David Selig]

No, his "plan" is crazy and doomed to failure, it says a lot about the complete idiocy of most Iron Born that they chose him for a King.

[WhiteWalder]

Euron will have a hard time conquering anything that is not on the coast.  He will need the dragons to have a chance to take all of Westeros, which still does not guarantee victory.  IMO he will take Rheagal or Viserion, then Dany will somehow take them back with Drogons help.  In other words, by trying to steal a dragon, he will make himself a target.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I can no more see a King Euron than I can a King Aenys, and for the same reason.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

BondJamesBond, on 10 May 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

I see major flaws in his plan. First, if he wants Dany then sending his brother after her was a big mistake.

Victarion is a moron.

“I have seen you in the nightfires, Victarion Greyjoy. You come striding through the flames stern and fierce, your great axe dripping blood, blind to the tentacles that grasp you at wrist and neck and ankle, the black strings that make you dance.”

“Have you seen these others in your fires?” he asked, warily. “Only their shadows,” Moqorro said. “One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood.”

Moqorro pointed to the band of steel. “Here. ‘Blood for fire, fire for blood.’ Who blows the hellhorn matters not. The dragons will come to the horn’s master. You must claim the horn. With blood.”

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Euron is too egotistical to inspire loyalty in the people who should be his closest allies (Victarian, asha).

How was he going to win their allegiance after killing Victarion's brother and Asha's father.

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In any event, getting Dany

What does he need Dany for?

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is a huge longshot. Second, he just took over a few rocks in the river (forget the name) on the way to oldtown.

“Rocks?” gasped Margaery. “Did Your Grace say rocks?”

The Knight of Flowers put a hand upon his sister’s shoulder. “If it please Your Grace, from those rocks the ironmen threaten Oldtown and the Arbor. From strongholds on the Shields, raiders can sail up the Mander into the very heart of the Reach, as they did of old. With enough men they might even threaten Highgarden.”

“Truly?” said the queen, all innocence. “Why then, your brave brothers had best roust them off those rocks, and quickly.”

“How would the queen suggest they accomplish that, without sufficient ships?” asked Ser Loras. “Willas and Garlan can raise ten thousand men within a fortnight and twice that in a moon’s turn, but they cannot walk on water, Your Grace.”

“Highgarden sits above the Mander,” Cersei reminded him. “You and your vassals command a thousand leagues of coast. Are there no fisherfolk along your shores? Do you have no pleasure barges, no ferries, no river galleys, no skiffs?”

“Many and more,” Ser Loras admitted.

“Such should be more than sufficient to carry a host across a little stretch of water, I would think.”

“And when the longships of the ironborn descend upon our ragtag fleet as it is making its way across this ‘little stretch of water,’ what would Your Grace have us do then?”

Drown, thought Cersei.

“I swore to give you Westeros,” the Crow’s Eye said when the tumult died away, “and here is your first taste. A morsel, nothing more... but we shall feast before the fall of night!” The torches along the walls were burning bright, and so was he, blue lips, blue eye, and all. “What the kraken grasps it does not loose. These isles were once ours, and now they are again... but we need strong men to hold them. So rise, Ser Harras Harlaw, Lord of Greyshield.” The Knight stood, one hand upon Nightfall’s moonstone pommel. “Rise, Andrik the Unsmiling, Lord of Southshield.” Andrik shoved away his women and lurched to his feet, like a mountain rising sudden from the sea. “Rise, Maron Volmark, Lord of Greenshield.” A beardless boy of six-and-ten years, Volmark stood hesitantly, looking like the lord of rabbits. “And rise, Nute the Barber, Lord of Oakenshield.”

Nute’s eyes grew wary, as if he feared he was the butt of some cruel jape. “A lord?” he croaked.

Victarion had expected the Crow’s Eye to give the lordships to his own creatures, Stonehand and the Red Oarsman and Left-Hand Lucas Codd. A king must needs be open-handed, he tried to tell himself, but another voice whispered, Euron’s gifts are poisoned. When he turned it over in his head, he saw it plain. The Knight was the Reader’s chosen heir, and Andrik the Unsmiling the strong right arm of Dunstan Drumm. Volmark is a callow boy, but he has Black Harren’s blood in him through his mother. And the Barber...

Victarion grabbed him by the forearm. “Refuse him!”

Nute looked at him as if he had gone mad. “Refuse him? Lands and lordship? Will you make me a lord?” He wrenched his arm away and stood, basking in the cheers.

And now he steals my men away, Victarion thought.

A thousand ships!” The little queen’s brown hair was tousled and uncombed, and the torchlight made her cheeks look flushed, as if she had just come from some man’s embrace. “Your Grace, this must be answered fiercely!” Her last word rang off the rafters and echoed through the cavernous throne room.

Seated on her gold-and-crimson high seat beneath the Iron Throne, Cersei could feel a growing tightness in her neck. Must, she thought. She dares say “must” to me. She itched to slap the Tyrell girl across the face. She should be on her knees, begging for my help. Instead, she presumes to tell her rightful queen what she must do.

“A thousand ships?” Ser Harys Swyft was wheezing. “Surely not. No lord commands a thousand ships.”...

“Some frightened fool has counted double,” agreed Orton Merryweather. “That, or Lord Tyrell’s bannermen are lying to us, puffing up the numbers of the foe so we will not think them lax.”

....Not Loras, though. Not our Knight of Flowers. He stood behind his little sister, a pale shadow with a longsword on his hip.

“Half as many ships would still be five hundred, my lord,” Waters pointed out to Orton Merryweather. “Only the Arbor has enough strength at sea to oppose a fleet that size.”

“What of your new dromonds?” asked Ser Harys. “The longships of the ironmen cannot stand before our dromonds, surely? King Robert’s Hammer is the mightiest warship in all Westeros.”

“She was,” said Waters. “Sweet Cersei will be her equal, once complete, and Lord Tywin will be twice the size of either. Only half are fitted out, however, and none is fully crewed. Even when they are, the numbers would be greatly against us. The common longship is small compared to our galleys, this is true, but the ironmen have larger ships as well. Lord Balon’s Great Kraken and the warships of the Iron Fleet were made for battle, not for raids. They are the equal of our lesser war galleys in speed and strength, and most are better crewed and captained. The ironmen live their whole lives at sea.”

Robert should have scoured the isles after Balon Greyjoy rose against him, Cersei thought. He smashed their fleet, burned their towns, and broke their castles, but when he had them on their knees he let them up again. He should have made another island of their skulls. That was what her father would have done, but Robert never had the stomach that a king requires if he hopes to

keep peace in the realm. “The ironmen have not dared raid the Reach since Dagon Greyjoy sat the Seastone Chair,” she said. “Why would they do so now? What has emboldened them?”

“Their new king.” Qyburn stood with his hands hidden up his sleeves. “Lord Balon’s brother. The Crow’s Eye, he is called.”

“Carrion crows make their feasts upon the carcasses of the dead and dying,” said Grand Maester Pycelle. “They do not descend upon hale and healthy animals. Lord Euron will gorge himself on gold and plunder, aye, but as soon as we move against him he will back to Pyke, as Lord Dagon was wont to do in his day.”

“You are wrong,” said Margaery Tyrell. “Reavers do not come in such strength. A thousand ships! Lord Hewett and Lord Chester are slain, as well as Lord Serry’s son and heir. Serry has fled to Highgarden with what few ships remain him, and Lord Grimm is a prisoner in his own castle. Willas says that the iron king has raised up four lords of his own in their places.”

Willas, Cersei thought, the cripple. He is to blame for this. That oaf Mace Tyrell left the defense of the Reach in the hands of a hapless weakling. “It is a long voyage from the Iron Isles to the Shields,” she pointed out. “How could a thousand ships come all that way without being seen?”

“Willas believes that they did not follow the coast,” said Margaery. “They made the voyage out of sight of land, sailing far out into the Sunset Sea and swooping back in from the west.”

More like the cripple did not have his watchtowers manned, and now he fears to have us know it. The little queen is making excuses for her brother. Cersei’s mouth was dry. I need a cup of Arbor gold. If the ironmen decided to take the Arbor next, the whole realm might soon be going thirsty.

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He hasn't done anything. The power of the reach will destroy him. Sure, it will divert the tyrells from supporting the iron throne, but ultimately the tyrells will protect their turf. Third, it was a big mistake not going for casterly rock since the Lannisters are divided internally and geographically. Casterly rock, or at least lannisport, was the best rich target on the western coast. Even if they take oldtown, the reach still has highgarden as a base of power to take it back. Casterly rock is all the Lannisters have in the west in terms of major power centers that are close by. Fourth, trying to take over all westeros is just too ambitious. The ironmen don't have siege engines or skilled cavalry. They don't even have a navy really. Their ships are basically troop transport vessels that would get wasted by any decent navy. They needed to focus on just getting a major city by the coast and getting a power base. Finally, I think his magic horn is just a bs story to get support. There is no doubt Euron is a very dangerous man, but his plan is just too crazy to work.

Euron’s hellhorn. Victarion ran his hand along it. The horn was as warm and smooth as the dusky woman’s thighs, and so shiny that he could see a twisted likeness of his own features in its depths. Strange sorcerous writings had been cut into the bands that girded it. “Valyrian glyphs,” Moqorro called them. That much Victarion had known. “What do they say?” “Much and more.” The black priest pointed to one golden band. “Here the horn is named. ‘I am Dragonbinder,’ it says. Have you ever heard it sound?” “Once.” One of his brother’s mongrels had sounded the hellhorn at the kingsmoot on Old Wyk. A monster of a man he had been, huge and shaven-headed, with rings of gold and jet and jade around arms thick with muscle, and a great hawk tattooed across his chest. “The sound it made … it burned, somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot, then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one.” “And the man who blew the horn, what of him?” “He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too.” The captain thumped his chest. “The hawk, just here. Every feather dripping blood. I heard the man was all burned up inside, but that might just have been some tale.”

“A true tale.” Moqorro turned the hellhorn, examining the queer letters that crawled across a second of the golden bands.“Here it says, ‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”

Edited by Lord Littlefinger's Lash, 11 May 2012 - 10:29 AM.