Francis Buck Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Argh.That is all.Okay, no, that's not all. Last month I crittered my most recent novel. The feedback I got was both heartening and incredibly discouraging. Most of what they said was stuff I already knew was a problem. But that doesn't help me fix it. But they also liked it and thought it had real publishable potential. So now I'm looking down the barrel of doing another draft of this one, one where I don't really have any clear idea of what I even want to do, but would probably involve some major revamp...and I think, no. This novel just isn't worth it. This isn't The One, you know? It's not terrible. It's the third compete novel I've written (with countless other partials) and a damn sight better than my first two. And it's frustrating to think of how much time and love and effort I've sunk into it. But I think it's time to shelve it, call it some good lessons learned, and move on.Working on a new project. About 25k words into it, and so far I think it is MUCH better. I alpha'd the first chapter and it was much better received (by someone who had beta'd my last novel). I have a lot of hope for it. But it is a more ambitious project than any I've done to date, and it's been slow going. Still, taking it one day at a time, and hopefully I'll have something to show for it in a few months.It's funny, I'm in a similar boat right now. I'm doing a re-write of my first completed novel, but there's just so many things that need work, and I really want to move on to my next project, especially since it's likely to be a multi-year commitment. I feel bad about having put that much effort into something just to let it go, but as you say there are the still lessons learned, and of course it's not going anywhere if you ever want to return to it. I'm still going to try and get through, because there are parts of it that really like and I do think it could be good with work, but I'm definitely considering the possibility of dropping it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Trunk it. No, really, I know that's not what you want to hear, but there is no shame in trunking a completed project. Everyone's done it. It's not the number of trunked projects that matter, it's the one that gets the agent/publisher to notice that matter. I've got two trunked novels and countless shelved projects. Move on to the next, learn from what you've done and make another go at a new project. The great thing is that you can always come back to the trunked novel later, either to give it another go OR to scavenge ideas from it. I did it with my beast "The Falling Dark" that I workshopped on the OLD Writer's Board. 180k of steaming crap that I salvaged almost 8 years later and turned into "The Sisters of Khoda," which my agent likes but it needed some depth.Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm feeling. I've put a LOT of work into world building for this project, and I am still in love with the world, so I could see myself scavenging some of the story elements and trying something else in the setting later. But it's definitely time to trunk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Thirteen chapters done in fourth draft: have now cracked 100,000 words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Gah. The industry should just decide on a standard, or not have this bullshit at all. Read the first 30 pages and decide if you like the fucking thing or not. After some friendly advice from Myrddin i managed to narrow in on the query letter pretty easily, but this synopsis thing is retarded. Distilling 180,000 words into 1 or 2 pages is more of a pain in the ass than writing the book.Speaking of, i've reached the 102,000 work mark of the follow up book, In Sorrows. I struggled for awhile, but i usually get a feeling of malaise for some months of the year mostly unrelated to my writing. I think i'm done with the struggling, so i'll probably be able to pump out the next 80k in words before christmas.But i have to do this fucking synopsis. Gag. I have a query letter, the book has been edited...only this remains. Frig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Apparently we're all doing it wrong (or right?).How to Publish Your Book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Apparently we're all doing it wrong (or right?).How to Publish Your BookThey left out the ritual humiliation of approaching editors and agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I've just finished the latest revision of my Chapter 15. The thing's now 10,250 words. That's one chapter that's getting split... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 How long do your chapters usually come in at? Mine tend to be in the vicinity of 3500, but when i'm deliberately trying to write more lightly, like the current Nano, they go as low as 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 How long do your chapters usually come in at? Mine tend to be in the vicinity of 3500, but when i'm deliberately trying to write more lightly, like the current Nano, they go as low as 2000.Very variable. I wrote one earlier this book that was only 1000 words in its original form, though I later added another scene to it that took it to 2500. Rough Diamond's chapters ranged from 4K to 10K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 My nanowrimo chapters are running about 3k in general. My other novel has chapters that are about 5k in length, generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 How long do your chapters usually come in at? Mine tend to be in the vicinity of 3500, but when i'm deliberately trying to write more lightly, like the current Nano, they go as low as 2000.My current project has chapters ranging from 3950 (likely to be revised up) to 10,250 (ridiculous, and getting split). I try to aim for 4000-7000 generally, with 5000 being the optimum as I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Mine are about 4k, but each contains around 3 different PoV sections (which probably makes for choppy reading, looking forward to that criticism whenever another human gets a look at it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My chapters end up around 5k. Usually 4 scenes. Not on purpose, it just somehow works out that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Has anyone ever noticed that possibly almost every chapter in The Book of the Sun is about 5 pages? I could be wrong, it jumped out at me at same point late in the series & seemed to be the case once I started paying attention to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebenstone Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Mine tend to be between 3-4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Usually 2k, sometimes up to 3k. I prefer short chapters (assuming the flow/pacing of scenes allows for it) since I think it's better for the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 What use are chapters anyway? I know the main reason is for aiding the reader experience by dividing it into consumable chunks, and perhaps having a cliff-hanger every once in a while, but from the perspective of the narrative, chapters do not seem natural to the narrative structure, they are very artificial. One suggestion I've read is to use chapters to note when the character has switch from an active to reactive phase. That seems much more natural to me. Do any of you actually use it for that reason? Do you use it for any other logical reason, or just because you think you have to have chapters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I like to toss in a dramatic line that needs a bit of a tum-ta-dum pause after it now and then, which a chapter break nicely provides. And to switch pov's, moods, and occasionaly settings and for significant time gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 What use are chapters anyway? I know the main reason is for aiding the reader experience by dividing it into consumable chunks, and perhaps having a cliff-hanger every once in a while, but from the perspective of the narrative, chapters do not seem natural to the narrative structure, they are very artificial. One suggestion I've read is to use chapters to note when the character has switch from an active to reactive phase. That seems much more natural to me. Do any of you actually use it for that reason? Do you use it for any other logical reason, or just because you think you have to have chapters?I don't plan it out like that or anything. I just find that there is usually a point where I feel like it should be a new chapter, whether due to tension, timing, etc. I also have an excel sheet with the breakdown of scenes and chapters, and I keep a running total of word count for each scene, so I can see if I'm creating a monster of a chapter that needs to be broken up. On a previous manuscript, I think I had like 3 chapters in a row that were 1 scene each and then 1 chapter that was 14 scenes...that was when I started my excel sheet, which I have found to be a hugely helpful tool. I make a new tab for each draft, so I can move around scenes, add scenes, delete them, whatever, but still see the previous construction. And it helps me keep track of timeline, wordcount, structure, and POVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't plan it out like that or anything. I just find that there is usually a point where I feel like it should be a new chapter, whether due to tension, timing, etc. I also have an excel sheet with the breakdown of scenes and chapters, and I keep a running total of word count for each scene, so I can see if I'm creating a monster of a chapter that needs to be broken up. On a previous manuscript, I think I had like 3 chapters in a row that were 1 scene each and then 1 chapter that was 14 scenes...that was when I started my excel sheet, which I have found to be a hugely helpful tool. I make a new tab for each draft, so I can move around scenes, add scenes, delete them, whatever, but still see the previous construction. And it helps me keep track of timeline, wordcount, structure, and POVs.I am totally awed by you right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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