165 replies to this topic

[skacore]

I've always had this feeling that Tommen truly is the legitimate son of Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister. Do you guys think there is any chance of this? I don't recall his appearance descriptions from the books but on the show he's given dirty blonde hair, almost a brown colour, and he looks a little chubbier than your typical Lannister. I know he's a bit of a push over but he's still so young. Maybe he'll show signs of being a true Baratheon in the last 2 books?

I think it would certainly be a nice twist to the story because as it stands right now it seems inevitible that poor Tommen is bound to die so that Jon/Aegon/Dany/Stannis can sit the throne.

[Apple Martini]

No. He's Jaime and Cersei's son.

And Lannisters have been known to get chubby. Cersei's gaining weight and Genna Lannister got a bit plump as she got older.

[The Last Direwolf]

It's been made pretty clear that all of Cersei's three children were Jaime's. Sorry, but he doesn't have a legitimate claim to the Throne with so many other, more worthy claimants.

[Lady Hodor]

Yes, Cersei killed any of Robert's children before they were born... But then again, if she slept with Robert and Jaime around the same time... would she know?
But its a pretty big thing that Baratheon kids have black hair, as we saw with his bastards, Tommen is golden like a Lannister.

[Stannis' sense of humour]

Tommen will end up playing in the Dornish Water Garden, and grow up to have a lovely life in obscurity.

[Stannis' sense of humour]

Stannis, on 11 May 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Tommen will end up playing in the Dornish Water Garden, and grow up to have a lovely life in obscurity.

With LOTS of kittens.

[Pellaeon]

It could be, genetic is a bitch, even recessive genes can pass and Cersei can only believe all of her children were Jaimes but she can't be 100% sure. They might stayed all of Cerseis children are Jamies but we can't be sure either. It would be a great twist, yes I would love to see Stannis reaction/face if Tommen is Roberts son, epic!

[kwvapor]

Lady Hodor, on 11 May 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Yes, Cersei killed any of Robert's children before they were born... But then again, if she slept with Robert and Jaime around the same time... would she know?
But its a pretty big thing that Baratheon kids have black hair, as we saw with his bastards, Tommen is golden like a Lannister.

I recall Cersei saying, she made it a point to make Robert get off with her hands...he was too drunk to ever--question what was going on.  

ETA--I also recall a that she smiled/rejoiced at the fact that Robert's children died in her hands.  (his seeds)

Edited by Censored Wolf, 11 May 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[Buckwheat]

Was there not a brand new thread on this question last week?

No, Cersei knows that all of her children are Jaime's, and I believe her in this. Also, Tommen "looks nothing like this oly drunken king" (channeling Sansa, only do not know the exact words).

Stannis, on 11 May 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

With LOTS of kittens.

I just want to say I like your signature.

[tryagainlater]

I would like that twist but how could it ever be revealed? Does Westeros have DNA tests other than checking their hair/eye colour?

[Jem]

I think that it has been made very clear that Baratheon's always have black hair. Whether or not this is true of real life genetics, it doesn't matter, the point is that the text has clearly stated what is true in this world - that Baratheon's always have black hair (not dirty blonde, not brown, but black!).

[Dr. Pepper]

Tommen is chubby because Cersei doesn't allow him to do any physical activity.  She squashes his attempts at knight training and keeps him sitting in the Red Keep stamping papers as much as possible.

He's a Lannister.  Cersei might be an unreliable narrator at times but I definitely believe her when she says she ate Robert's children right off her hands.  His peen didn't get close to her vajayjay.

[kwvapor]

Another confirmation would be Maggy the Frog.  She had real powers and foretold Cersei's future like clockwork.  If you reread it, it confirms that Cersei's children are not Roberts'.

ETA--and yes, sadly, Tommen will die, it's in the same prophecy mentioned above.

Edited by Censored Wolf, 11 May 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[binga]

No all Baratheons have dark hair, if it doesn't work genetically then just assume it's magic.

[Ser Ragnar]

All Baratheons are dark haired - no matter what.

Its even mentioned that an earlier Lannister/Baratheon marriage ended with dark haired offspring (Lannister male/Baratheon woman). Theres no way Tommen is Roberts.

[Pellaeon]

Ser Ragnar, on 11 May 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

All Baratheons are dark haired - no matter what. Its even mentioned that an earlier Lannister/Baratheon marriage ended with dark haired offspring (Lannister male/Baratheon woman). Theres no way Tommen is Roberts.

That is no reason he coudn't be Roberts son, black haired parents can have blonde children. Recessive genes can dominate in a small number of cases, black haired parents can have blond children if there is only one gene, so without a modern genetest we can't rule out that Tommen might be Roberts child, even Cersei can't know for sure.

[Kevan Lannister]

Pellaeon, on 21 May 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

That is no reason he coudn't be Roberts son, black haired parents can have blonde children. Recessive genes can dominate in a small number of cases, black haired parents can have blond children if there is only one gene, so without a modern genetest we can't rule out that Tommen might be Roberts child, even Cersei can't know for sure.

Pellaeon, on 21 May 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

That is no reason he coudn't be Roberts son, black haired parents can have blonde children. Recessive genes can dominate in a small number of cases, black haired parents can have blond children if there is only one gene, so without a modern genetest we can't rule out that Tommen might be Roberts child, even Cersei can't know for sure.

It's fantasy, Baratheons have black hair.

[Pellaeon]

Kevan Lannister, on 21 May 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

It's fantasy, Baratheons have black hair.

It's maybe fantasy but a much more realistic fantasy then the most story of this genre. The question was is there any chance Tommen is a Baratheon, and there is a chance. Arya looks more like a Stark whereupon the other Starkchildren look more like Tullys, however she is Neds daughter, so Tomman can be Roberts son, and if he is: Stannis teeth will break during this grind

[LuisDantas]

I wish I knew where all this certainty comes from.

The persistence of dark hair among Baratheons is certainly a strong reason to believe they are not Robert's children.  But certainty?  Sorry, I just don't get it.  To the extent that we are certain, it must be because Cersei - the one person that might perhaps know for certain - shows no doubts on the matter.  Which is still less than reassuring, since Cersei isn't particularly sane.

[danm_999]

LuisDantas, on 21 May 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I wish I knew where all this certainty comes from.

The persistence of dark hair among Baratheons is certainly a strong reason to believe they are not Robert's children.  But certainty?  Sorry, I just don't get it.  To the extent that we are certain, it must be because Cersei - the one person that might perhaps know for certain - shows no doubts on the matter.  Which is still less than reassuring, since Cersei isn't particularly sane.

From here:

The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago, when Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon, third son of the reigning lord. Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon’s tome as a large and lusty lad born with a full head of black hair, died in infancy. Thirty years before that a male Lannister had taken a Baratheon maid to wife. She had given him three daughters and a son, each black-haired. No matter how far back Ned searched in the brittle yellowed pages, always he found the gold yielding before the coal.

FYI the book Ned's reading goes back to the Age of Heroes, thousands of years ago.