399 replies to this topic

[Newsun]

I am curious to see what the average person on this forum thinks about homosexuality and gay marriage. Do you think it's morally wrong because of your religion? Do you think that it's wrong because people aren't physically made to do that? Do you support it because you think everyone should be able to marry who they love or do what they want with another consenting adult?

As a side question for those of you in the U.S., if you had the option and power to set the law regarding gay marriage right now, what would you do? Would you outright ban or legalize it? Would you do nothing and let the people decide state by state? Would you make the people decide on a federal level? Or would you think of some other clever option that I didn't think of?

My personal view on homosexuality is that we are not physically made to do that, and that it is wrong on a biological level. However, I do believe that gays should be allowed to marry. If I had the power I would outright legalize gay marriage in the U.S.

ETA: Read my second and third posts on this page before responding... I admit to being an idiot, and I am still curious about everyone's opinion on the matter (not your opinion on my idiocy.)

Edited by Newsun, 12 May 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[Dracarya]

I really don't see the big deal. I'm not religious, so that might be why, but personally I don't see any reason why two men or two women cannot get married in the same ceremony as a man and a woman, and have the exact same rights as well. Love is love, who the hell are we to judge?

As a side note, I live in England and my parents weren't married, but they'd been together for about 20 years. When my dad died, it was stated that he died a single man on his death certificate. What the fuck? In this day and age, gay marriages and civil partnerships and cohabiting couples.. EVERYONE should have the same rights as married couples. I find the whole thing laughable. What do they think will happen if they allow gay marriage? Gay people will get married and be just as happy or miserable as straight married couples. It shouldn't even be up for debate, IMHO.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I am religious and my faith takes a dim view of homosexual sex.  However, I strongly believe in equal protection under the law.  There are privileges and immunities that pass between married couples (Automatic intestate passage of property, elective share rights, "family immunity", automatic power of attorney, etc... ) that do not pass between unmarried couples.  Denying homosexuals the right to partake of those privileges and immunities is, in my opinion, a violation of equal protection.  Therefore, I believe homosexual marriage should be allowed.

Some argue that all of those rights can be created via private contract.  That is not true.  Family immunity and right to an elective share of a decedents estate are not rights that can be imbued in another via private contract.

Also, what consenting adults do with each other is their business, not mine.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison, 12 May 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Newsun, on 12 May 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

My personal view on homosexuality is that we are not physically made to do that, and that it is wrong on a biological level. However, I do believe that gays should be allowed to marry. If I had the power I would outright legalize gay marriage in the U.S.

It's true, it's completely wrong on a biological level to do "that" (whatever that is). I am also opposed to masturbation of every kind, oral sex of every kind, and especially heterosexual anal sex, because "that" is really wrong because like, the right spot is only an inch or two away, and you just really have no excuse. I'm equally opposed to vaccines of every kind, because that's just fucking unnatural. Thankfully, adult onset polio prevents me from having to hold down a real job, because working at a desk all day is really wrong on a biological level because on a biological level, we're supposed to stand and walk a lot.

Edited by NestorMakhnosLovechild, 12 May 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Ormond]

Oh gee, I wish someone as new as you are to the board would have done some more reading of all the threads before posting this, and you would have gotten a good idea of what many of the regular posters here think about this already.

No, I don't think same sex relationships are morally wrong according to my religion. I have been working in my own religious denomination (Presbyterian Church USA) to make its policies more GLBT-supportive for over 30 years, and just recently we finally got a change in the church constitution that allows for the ordination of gay and lesbian persons as clergy. Now I'm working toward official recognition of same sex marriage within our church.

The argument that homsexuality is "wrong on a biological level because we are not physically made to do that" is to me incorrect on several different levels.

First, it confuses biology with morality.

Second, human beings do all sorts of things we aren't "biologically made to do" all the time. Do you think it's wrong for people with poor vision to wear glasses? For humans to fly in airplanes or even to ride in a land vehicle which travels faster than any human can run? For people to cut their hair?

Third, what exactly are you thinking of when you say "do that"? The huge majority of physical activities same sex partners engage in are no different from those that opposite sex partners engage in. In fact, every sexual activity that same sex couples do is also performed by many heterosexual couples.

Finally, this also flies in the face of a great deal of research showing that members of hundreds of other animal species engage in same sex behavior in the wild. Since most other mammalian species don't have long term pair bonding of opposite sex couples, they also don't have long term pair bonds of same sex couples. But long term same sex pairs have been observed in several species of birds where pair bonding is the norm. See Bruce Bagemihl's book for a start on reviewing the research on this (though he is far from the only person to have written on this and there are many different ideas by biologists on just what function same sex behavior serves in various species):

http://us.macmillan....e/BruceBagemihl

[gryphon strike]

Hey two consenting adults can do as they wish so long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Thus by extension gay marriage is a simple matter of equality or does someone want to claim that homosexual men and women are not equal to heterosexuals?

I am a straight male who is somewhat homophobic but even so I am not about to let my problem impinge on the rights of other individuals.

[Gillio]

You've come to the wrong place for average people. I find most of the regulars here Way above average.

But anyway, to answer your question, I don't see any reason to deny marriage and the protections it provides to any adult couple; by wanting to marry,  they have already made a commitment to one another, it is only fair that this commitment is given the same legal status as any other marriage.

[Darth Arya]

Ok here goes-I'm a lesbian and I'm in a relationship with someone I absolutely love to bits, I feel very strongly about being able to marry her as it's something I really want to do and until I can Marry her properly and not have a Civil Partnership which isn't quite the same.
I also get very irritated by being told that something is wrong with me etc by Religious types, maybe I feel the same about them as I view Christianity,Islam etc with the same view I do Scientology, just they have had a 2000 ish year head start to promote their agenda.

I also feel very strongly about having a family but that's a whole other issue.

Edited by Katherine Of House Sith, 12 May 2012 - 08:26 AM.

[naz]

I'm religious and my faith takes NO VIEW WHATSOEVER on homosexuality, as it rightly should not, since one thing has exactly zero to do with the other. A religion having any stance on homosexuality or any sexual issue at all is like my fantasy baseball league having a stance on what kind of toast I should eat for breakfast.

[Newsun]

Ok ok I'm not exactly the smartest person I'll admit, Nestor your point makes me reconsider my words. At best they were poorly chosen, at worst I'm an idiot .

[Prince Alexander]

Newsun, on 12 May 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

My personal view on homosexuality is that we are not physically made to do that, and that it is wrong on a biological level.

So who exactly told you what's wrong and what's right on a biological level? And what sort of authority did they have for you to trust them?

[Newsun]

naz, on 12 May 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

I'm religious and my faith takes NO VIEW WHATSOEVER on homosexuality, as it rightly should not, since one thing has exactly zero to do with the other. A religion having any stance on homosexuality or any sexual issue at all is like my fantasy baseball league having a stance on what kind of toast I should eat for breakfast.

I don't agree with this. If your religion has laws concerning homosexuality, as some do, then religion has everything to do with homosexuality.

[Ser Greguh]

I'm an atheist, and a Kinsey 0 (as far as I can tell), and think that the assertion that homosexual sex is somehow "biologically wrong" demands an unimaginable level of ignorance of biology, sex, and basic morality to be remotely palatable.  The argument doesn't make any kind of sense.  I think that opposition to gay marriage is unequivocally stupid, that people should have a right to love who they want and that they should have a right to have that love acknowledged by the state and by whatever faith they choose, and that history will be no more kind to the opponents of gay marriage than they are to the proponents of slavery, the opponents of women's suffrage, or the opponents of the civil rights issues of the mid 20th century.

Edited by Ser Greguh, 12 May 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[Newsun]

I hope people read my second post before responding to my first; I admit to not thinking things through much in this case, a problem of mine I can't quite seem to overcome.

[JamieM]

Simple - I believe in equality for everyone, and what two (or more...) people choose together to do in their private life is none of my business and has no impact on mine.

The breeder defence holds no water with me, there are always going to be plenty of men and women who want to have children together - that isn't going to end. The planet is also massively populated, and there are plenty of children who need to be adopted into loving homes - I believe GLBT couples are just as capable as providing this and that their sexuality does not necessarily translate to their children - and if it does? I'm ok with that.

The view of what is deemed right in nature means little to me either - nature is constantly evolving and we should let it.

Edited by James Mariner, 12 May 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[JamieM]

Dracarya, on 12 May 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

I really don't see the big deal. I'm not religious, so that might be why, but personally I don't see any reason why two men or two women cannot get married in the same ceremony as a man and a woman, and have the exact same rights as well. Love is love, who the hell are we to judge?

As a side note, I live in England and my parents weren't married, but they'd been together for about 20 years. When my dad died, it was stated that he died a single man on his death certificate. What the fuck? In this day and age, gay marriages and civil partnerships and cohabiting couples.. EVERYONE should have the same rights as married couples. I find the whole thing laughable. What do they think will happen if they allow gay marriage? Gay people will get married and be just as happy or miserable as straight married couples. It shouldn't even be up for debate, IMHO.

Kim Kardashian was married and your parents were not - kind of says it all really...

[naz]

Newsun, on 12 May 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

I don't agree with this. If your religion has laws concerning homosexuality, as some do, then religion has everything to do with homosexuality.

You didn't get my point.

[Ormond]

Newsun, on 12 May 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

I hope people read my second post before responding to my first; I admit to not thinking things through much in this case, a problem of mine I can't quite seem to overcome.

You could go back and add a P.S. to your original post by using the "edit" function if you want to stop people responding to your original poorly thought out idea.

[gryphon strike]

Newsun, on 12 May 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Ok ok I'm not exactly the smartest person I'll admit, Nestor your point makes me reconsider my words. At best they were poorly chosen, at worst I'm an idiot .

Hey at least your smart enough to admit it when you have made a mistake, that puts you ahead of a lot of people here

[JamieM]

*lights up the Orson Scott Card signal*