192 replies to this topic

[Fearsome Fred]

I am continually amazed by how eager fans are to write off Sweetrobin as a goner.  Many, it seems, are too busy admiring the scheming villain Littlefinger to give him a second thought.  I say he will survive and thrive, for the following reasons:

(1)  Everyone in the story expects him do die, or otherwise be a failure, and GRRM has a sense of irony;

(2)  He is the last of the Arryns, a noble and ancient house that has lasted thousands of years;

(3)  He loves the ancient stories, and knows them all by heart;

(4)  He is a wicked aim with a bowl of porridge or a chamberpot;

(5)  Even at aged 6, he knows a "bad man" when he sees one.  Tyrion fans hate him for this, but it is the simple truth.

(6)  He has a healthy fear of Littlefinger; smart kid.

(7)  Ever since his mother's death, he won't let anyone come near him with a blade; smart kid.

(8)  Even while terrified, he managed to be brave while coming down the mountain: "The winged knight was brave and so am I.  I am an Arryn."  The "high saddle" path defeated Cate coming up; but on the more-difficult task of coming down, Sweetrobin calls it "nothing" and exhibits only a mild shaking.

Edit:

(9)  Stronger than he looks.  (He can hurt you flailing; you would not think it, but he can).

Edited by Fearsome Fred, 15 May 2012 - 06:46 PM.

[Apple Martini]

I actually agree. His death is so broadly telegraphed, to the point where people are actually saying, "Yeah the kid's going to die" soon, that I think he might actually survive.

Same could be said for Shireen, actually.

[Jamie Lannister]

Him becoming a badass would indeed be an amusing plot twist.

He can't really do anything as he is, though. His immediate protectors are either planning to kill him, waiting for him to die, or seemingly complicit in either plan.

[Independent George]

He's already addicted to dreamwine, isn't he?

[just an Other]

Eager or not, he has a debilitaing disease that is progressively getting worse in an environment that has no means of treating it. Also his primary caretakers are giving him poison in an attempt to alleviate the symptoms. The way things stand if he actually survives, Martin will have some explaining to do.

[kwvapor]

Sansa kinda brushed it off saying father's plans are more important than SR safety.  I think he is addicted and can only drink 1 more dose before he overdose.

[Grail King]

Always thought he may pull through and hopefully Sansa takes him and they maybe land in the QI where the septon could heal the kid.

But this is GRRM story, I hope Sansa at least attempts to save her cousin.

[Fearsome Fred]

Jamie Lannister, on 13 May 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Him becoming a badass would indeed be an amusing plot twist.

I was thinking more along the lines of his becoming a GOOD-ass.

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He can't really do anything as he is, though. His immediate protectors are either planning to kill him, waiting for him to die, or seemingly complicit in either plan.

Alayne only just found out about Baelish's plans to kill him.  So she is not complicit YET. What she does from here remains to be seen.

The effectiveness of any leader is measured by his choice of advisors & helpers.  Sweetrobin has clear preferences.  He likes Alayne, distrusts Baelish, distrusts the Maester who puts vile things in his milk; and thinks the grey mule with the chewed ear is the best of the mules.  Is he wrong?  Time will tell.

[kwvapor]

The introduction of Harry the Heir doesn't help either.  Sansa's compliance----This may be Sansa's decent into darkness or a hurdle that will change her story in a big way. LF has told Sansa his plan in a politically correct manner, it's inevitable he says to her, I haven't seen many of LF's plans fail.

Sweetrobin deserves to live by all your reasons but maybe before he dies, if he can directly or indirectly be part of the event that kills LF.  That would be enough and LF can go down in history as one of the most deadly players in Westeros having done so much major damage. This is sweet, but Martin promised us bittersweet.  

HOWEVER looking at the TV show's emphasis on LF.  He may have a bigger role to play in the end game.  I don't see him dying until he had his moment of glory.  Although he has had success it hasn't given him much by way of power -- just some empty titles. Obtaining Sansa is glorious but it doesn't really feel like a pinnacle to me.

[Devaki Khanna]

Apple Martini, on 13 May 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

I actually agree. His death is so broadly telegraphed, to the point where people are actually saying, "Yeah the kid's going to die" soon, that I think he might actually survive.

Same could be said for Shireen, actually.

Shireen, I think, might have acquired an immunity to greyscale due to her exposure to it in childhood. We're assuming that greyscale is the Westerosi version of leprosy--but I have never heard of a leprosy case where the patient's face was affected as hers is. However, leucoderma, which is a pigmentation problem, does leave patches on the face. I think we need more detail here on greyscale.

Robert Arryn's problem--is it epilepsy, hydrocephalus or something else? All we can tell is that he has fits and is weak, sickly and not physically or intellectually developed enough for a boy of six, when the story starts. If it is hydrocephalus, then this note from Wikipedia might be of interest:

The first clinical description of and operative procedure for hydrocephalus appears in the Al-Tasrif (1000 AD) by the Arab surgeon, Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi, who clearly described the evacuation of superficial intracranial fluid in hydrocephalic children.^[2] He described it in his chapter on neurosurgical disease, describing infantile hydrocephalus as being caused by mechanical compression. He states:^[2]

“The skull of a newborn baby is often full of liquid, either because the matron has compressed it excessively or for other, unknown reasons. The volume of the skull then increases daily, so that the bones of the skull fail to close. In this case, we must open the middle of the skull in three places, make the liquid flow out, then close the wound and tighten the skull with a bandage.”

We will not know for certain what will happen to either child, at least not till TWoW comes out.

[Jayaris]

Robin's condition could of had contributing factors from living in the Eyrie,  I don't remember it explicitly stated that it is cold, but I assume that it is.

Environmental exposure to fungus could of caused the mania in his mother and because he is a young child affected his health in more physical manifestations.

If someone is poisoning him, this would certainly hamper their continued efforts.

There are then opportunities for Robin's health to improve if it was worsening because of his environment or the staff at the castle.

Or considerably more unlikely a faith healer might happen along and heal him of all his woes.

Despite his shortcomings I do find Robin to be funny, so I hope that he lives.

[Lord Ravenfrost]

I think he's a goner, as much as I'd like to see this sort of twist and I do think it could be one possible outcome, I still think SweetRobin is gonna die in his sleep. Littlefinger has been slowly poisoning him for months and Robin is ripe to fall eternally. It just doesn't make a ton of sense to keep him alive, not with Harry the Heir in play. He's got Jon Arryn's blood coursing through him as well so the bloodline will just fine without little sweetrobin. Personally I can't wait to see him die I really can't stand him.

Edited by Sword of the Late Night, 15 May 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[Fearsome Fred]

just an Other, on 13 May 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Eager or not, he has a debilitaing disease that is progressively getting worse in an environment that has no means of treating it.

Says who?  Says Littlefinger, that's who, and only because Littlefinger is planning his death, and does not want it called murder.

His father, Jon Arryn, thought that Robert's problem was that he was too sheltered, not that he was not sheltered enough.

There is no evidence that Sweetrobin has a progressive, fatal disease.

He does not need treatment.  Just STOP treating him.  No more dreamwine.  No more sweetsleep.  No more of whatever else Baelish is trying to slip in his milk or his porridge.

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Also his primary caretakers are giving him poison in an attempt to alleviate the symptoms.

Actually, his Lord Protector is planning his death, and his primary caretaker only just found out about this.

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The way things stand if he actually survives, Martin will have some explaining to do.

Jon Arryn already provided the explanation.  If he is removed from his mother, he will thrive.  That has now been accomplished, and all Alayne need do is remove him from his poisoners.

Edited by Fearsome Fred, 13 May 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Fearsome Fred]

Sword of the Late Night, on 13 May 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

It just doesn't make a ton of sense to keep him alive, not with Harry the Heir in play.

What are the benefits of "Harry the Heir".  And to whom?

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Personally I can't wait to see him die I really can't stand him.

Who ARE you rooting for then?

[just an Other]

Fearsome Fred, on 13 May 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Says who?  Says Littlefinger, that's who, and only because Littlefinger is planning his death, and does not want it called murder.

His father, Jon Arryn, thought that Robert's problem was that he was too sheltered, not that he was not sheltered enough.

There is no evidence that Sweetrobin has a progressive, fatal disease.

He does not need treatment.  Just STOP treating him.  No more dreamwine.  No more sweetsleep.  No more of whatever else Baelish is trying to slip in his milk or his porridge.



Actually, his Lord Protector is planning his death, and his primary caretaker only just found out about this.



Jon Arryn already provided the explanation.  If he is removed from his mother, he will thrive.  That has now been accomplished, and all Alayne need do is remove him from his poisoners.

People can die form seizures and his are becoming progressively worse. Second, why do peope assume that LF wants to kill him. He is his only link to legitimacy as Lord Protector. Without Robert, he is nobody. Hence all his scheming to gain influence in the Vale. He simply has given up on his long term survival and he is catering to his immediate need of presenting a healthy Robert, while he makes other arrangements. Robert's death is almost an afterthought.

[Pellaeon]

He might isn't Jon Arryns son, maybe he is LFs, if thhis comes out it might bring LF to change his plans

[Thendel]

just an Other, on 13 May 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

People can die form seizures and his are becoming progressively worse. Second, why do peope assume that LF wants to kill him. He is his only link to legitimacy as Lord Protector. Without Robert, he is nobody. Hence all his scheming to gain influence in the Vale. He simply has given up on his long term survival and he is catering to his immediate need of presenting a healthy Robert, while he makes other arrangements. Robert's death is almost an afterthought.

You assume that for LF's plans to succeed, he has to be remain as formally important as he is now, which is hardly the truth. If what he told Sansa is his actual plan, Robert won't die by any of his actions until Sansa is married (or is as good as) to Harold Harding. That way, he will go from being Lord Protector to being the Lord's father-in-law, who also happens to still have half the Vale's nobility in his pocket.

Will Robert die? Chances are 50-50. Bear in mind that this is the first instance where we are told of LF's schemes before they actually play out.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Littlefinger is one dangerous man!

[Fire Eater]

I think Alayne will help Robert get progressively stronger over time. I think Robert may even have an experience that ends up making him more mature and stronger. If Sansa tries to escape with him through the Mountains of the Moon, he might try to protect her from the Mountain clans who would try to kidnap her. Robert could also have a Batman moment, where he has a traumatic experience that forces him to mature and give him the drive to train hard at arms and such.

[kwvapor]

Pellaeon, on 13 May 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

He might isn't Jon Arryns son, maybe he is LFs, if thhis comes out it might bring LF to change his plans

No way Jose, if that is true then

Sansa is actually LF's daughter--to get back at Ned for Jon Snow.  Wait for the big reveal and then LF will kill himself.

Edited by Censored Wolf, 13 May 2012 - 01:46 PM.