289 replies to this topic

[Rapsie]

Also I thought Jorah was the blood of the First Men, not an Andal. Also they are really messing up Dany's character. Whatever people's feelings about her in ADWD, she is not a bloody drama Queen and they are managing to portray her as one.

[SerMixalot]

Iszlai Ádám, on 15 May 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Actually in the books Tywin Lannister is painted as a man who has never been seen smiling by anyone before. Charles Dance's Tywin is pretty much close to book-Tywin. He let out a smirk, actually a smirk really close to the one described in the books: threatening, wof-like. It was good acting and not bad writing.

He actually LAUGHED last episode!  Booooo

[atia-]

Yeah, not digging the laughing.  If he was buried it should write on his tombstone, "And the only time Tywin ever smiled and laughed was....with a mysterious cupbearer."

[SerMixalot]

but only purists should mind.

I say BOOOOO

[Lord of Cheese]

victim, on 14 May 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

When did Shae and Sansa become such awesome buddies? Why would Shae even care that Sansa got her period let alone be willing to put a knife to someone's throat to keep them from telling the queen?

I aso thought it silly as that servant could have told Cersei what Shae had done to her. Shae has her own cover to keep.

[Buckwheat]

Raksha the Demon, on 15 May 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

The only reasons I can think of for the Hound to be in Sansa's bedroom before the Battle of the Blackwater...

The fleeing maid and Shae left the door wide open.  Sandor passes by and sees Sansa standing inside, and blood on the mattress, and wonders if there's a bleeding assassin under the bed, or if Sansa was hurt?  He goes in to investigate and figures out what happened, through Sansa's embarrassment (and the quickly shown) blood on the back of her dress.  For once, Sandor shuts up; because 'Flowering' is just too girly for a big tough guy to discuss.

Sandor is not a squealer; it makes no sense that he'd go tell on Sansa to the Queen, or anyone.  

That explanation makes sense, I suppose. I also think it would be terribly out of character if he was the one who told the queen what happened.

Raksha the Demon, on 15 May 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

And yet another Roz-free episode, hooray!

Yaaay! Isn't it wonderful? (sorry, I cannot just "Like" your post because I am out of them).

Rapsie, on 15 May 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

Also I thought Jorah was the blood of the First Men, not an Andal.

It is true. I think that it makes no difference to the Dothraki, though. They just decided to call anybody from Westeros an Andal, it makes sense to me.

Another nitpick: Why does Jorah speak to Quaithe, instead of Dany?  And why does he even go to search for her - as far as I remember the books, it was always Quaithe who randomly appeared in different scenes and gave some weird advice. I do not think one could just ... find her like this. Far too worldly for her.

Also, a ridiculously minor nitpick that I am not even sure is correct: Measter Luwin should be riding a donkey instead of a horse when they go "hunting" for Brandon and Rickon.

Edited by Buckwheat, 15 May 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[protar]

Buckwheat, on 15 May 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

That explanation makes sense, I suppose. I also think it would be terribly out of character if he was the one who told the queen what happened.


Yaaay! Isn't it wonderful? (sorry, I cannot just "Like" your post because I am out of them).


It is true. I think that it makes no difference to the Dothraki, though. They just decided to call anybody from Westeros an Andal, it makes sense to me.

Another nitpick: Why does Jorah speak to Quaithe, instead of Dany?  And why does he even go to search for her - as far as I remember the books, it was always Quaithe who randomly appeared in different scenes and gave some weird advice. I do not think one could just ... find her like this. Far too worldly for her.

Also, a ridiculously minor nitpick that I am not even sure is correct: Measter Luwin should be riding a donkey instead of a horse when they go "hunting" for Brandon and Rickon.

The show is RUINED!!!!!

[atia-]

Mad Queen, on 14 May 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Now you should count how long he spends talking about each character.

  maybe I'll change my avatar to a watch.

And I am with people who say WTF to the Hound in Sansa's bedroom.  First of all, why is he standing over her bed?  Creepy.  Second, why would he go rat her out to the queen?  He doesn't care about Cersei.

And yes, I'm a book purist or whatever you want to call it, and I DON'T CARE.  I'm proud of it.  GRRM even admires his purists. AND contrary to bitching on here, I still appreciate the shows.  I am soooo glad that I get to see so many of my favorite characters who I have been obsessed with for almost ten years come to life on television.  It's amazing.  I wouldn't be keeping track of all the character screen-times if I didn't care (that'll be posted tonight, by the way).  But I still get annoyed when things deviate a lot from the book.  Sometimes I see the necessity, but oftentimes I don't.  You can tell when D&D are changing things to make it better for television, and then you can see the times where they think they are more clever and put their own spin on things.  That is what bothers me.

I'm glad I started these threads.  Probably makes for less arguing on the general discussion thread too, since people can rant more on here about anything they wish.

Edited by hk47, 15 May 2012 - 01:03 PM.

[Buckwheat]

protar, on 15 May 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

The show is RUINED!!!!!

Well, didn't you know it? We can handle all the stupid exposition with Ros, all the changes to various characters from Jaime to Cersei to Catelyn, we can handle the absence of the direwolves and the dragons, and Jon's stupidity, but a horse is no donkey! It completely ruins the message!

[Raksha the Demon]

Bad, bad me; I totally forgot about Maester Luwin's donkey in the books.    I am shamed and can no longer call myself a purist!

[notakneeler]

lots of great nits already picked, but the following really bothers me.
In the book Quaithe is this mysterious character who shows up to warn Danny of coming dangers (and help make her a little paranoid.).  Readers can't even be sure Quaithe is actually there or only a projection. But in the show, anyone can find Quaithe monday to friday at her mystical mehndi parlour. Not only that, the one she speaks to is Jorah!
But her role as prophet of treachery has been made uneccessary by their weird take on Dany's character. All this yelling of "taking what is mine with blood and fire" nonsense really changes her growth arc in her dealings with the slaver cities for me.
Just the way they have "softened" Cersei and made Catelyn more of a "good mother", seems to me they are trying to build an "excuse" for Dany's ruthless taking of the Unsullied by her show treatment in Quarth. Unless they just hated her in the books, like so many on the boards seem to do, and are writing her as a spoiled drama queen because that's the way they see her. Having her distrust Jorah at this stage, with no real reason to do so, is another facet of writing her as a tempermental, paranoid brat.

[atia-]

notakneeler, on 15 May 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

lots of great nits already picked, but the following really bothers me.
In the book Quaithe is this mysterious character who shows up to warn Danny of coming dangers (and help make her a little paranoid.).  Readers can't even be sure Quaithe is actually there or only a projection. But in the show, anyone can find Quaithe monday to friday at her mystical mehndi parlour. Not only that, the one she speaks to is Jorah!
But her role as prophet of treachery has been made uneccessary by their weird take on Dany's character. All this yelling of "taking what is mine with blood and fire" nonsense really changes her growth arc in her dealings with the slaver cities for me.
Just the way they have "softened" Cersei and made Catelyn more of a "good mother", seems to me they are trying to build an "excuse" for Dany's ruthless taking of the Unsullied by her show treatment in Quarth. Unless they just hated her in the books, like so many on the boards seem to do, and are writing her as a spoiled drama queen because that's the way they see her. Having her distrust Jorah at this stage, with no real reason to do so, is another facet of writing her as a tempermental, paranoid brat.

Dany is actually brattier in the show, which I didn't think was possible.  I also agree about Quaithe. She only spoke to Dany in the books, was very mysterious with little to say, and on the show Quaithe and Jorah just chat about whatever, and she hasn't even spoken to Dany.  I don't really care either way, but it's an odd change.

Edited by hk47, 15 May 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[Natmus]

hk47, on 15 May 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm glad I started these threads.  Probably makes for less arguing on the general discussion thread too, since people can rant more on here about anything they wish.

Yes, these threads are a good place to went frustrations, and most complete showfans respect the purpose of this thread. Perhaps a converse thread should be started, "See no evil, hear no evil" or something to that effect, where it's only allowed to state positive opinions about the show, and nobody can disagree.

Personally I like to point out the inconsistencies and dumb mistake that are results of the changes. Not because changes in itself are bad, but because I feel that more thought and work should be put into them. I feel that many changes are made on the micro level, without considering the greater whole they fit into, and that results in problems with the overall narrative. And the overall narrative is what is important, in my opinion. It just that some of the pieces that make the greater picture are more important than others.

[insertname]

Ok, Pyatt Pree is apparently an evil masterlord that can simply murder 11 of the most powerful in Quarth by himself. So....what exactly does he need Xaro for? Why is he letting him become king?
The next episode could potentially clear up his motives, but I'm not buying this...

[Buckwheat]

Raksha the Demon, on 15 May 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Bad, bad me; I totally forgot about Maester Luwin's donkey in the books.    I am shamed and can no longer call myself a purist!

There, there, it will be allright. No need to be ashamed of it, it is better not to be a book purist anyway.

[Kittykatknits]

The more I think about Dany this season, the more I don't like the changes. She's not one of my favorite characters but I don't hate her by any means, don't feel strongly one way or the other. Pretty much every chapter of hers in Dance had me face palming but she did quite a bit beforehand that I admired. But, with every episode that passes, I'm finding the show is changing my impression of her in the books. If this keeps up, I'm going to start fast-forwarding through her scenes.

The dragon stealing just does not add any tension at all for me. I still laugh when I think of it. Think about it, we know exactly what she's going to do. Travel to the House of the Undying, deliver a sternly worded lecture about fire and blood, and then she'll take what is hers. There is no suspense there for me. It's just silly.

The scenes I have enjoyed the most have been the ones with Jorah, maybe because they are closer to canon than the rest of them. Or maybe because he's so pleasant on the eyes...that could be it too.

Edited by Kittykatknits, 15 May 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[birdsong66]

Quote

1.This:

[img]http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png[/img]Rapsie, on 14 May 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

The Northern Army has 1 nurse. No Maesters. No Healers. One random nurse, to tend to thousands of men. Seriously?
And this nurse can randomly walk into the King's tent and interrupt the conversation with Roose. Really? Plus, the King happily invites her with him to some random negotioations.

God, YES, so much this!  Mr. Birdsong, an unsullied viewer, turned to me with the most priceless WTF look on his face.  The entirety of the Robb-Talisa Socially Conscious Nurse Lady is so much trite, cliche bullshit...it's just intellectually insulting, lowest common denominator...just, whatever, get it over with, the banality hurts my head.

I can deal with all the other changes because in the face of the aforementioned, at least those are entertaining, or somewhat informative, and in some cases, surprisingly inventive.

SIDENOTE:  They aren't softening Cercei up at all; They are showing her using the weapons in her "woman's arsenal" to attain her ends.  She's softening up Tryion, in truth.   She'll return to her sociopathic ways soon enough, so it's not really a valid nit-pick...it's a deftly performed bait-n-switch, IMO.

[Fantôme]

So,it's not really a nitpick specific to this episode but:
I think Jon's arc in the show is a failure. I don't mean just for me, though of course as much as I tried to separate the show and the books I couldn't ignore the fact that they made me hate one of my favourite characters, and be bored by a great story arc ,but it's not just that .For all the Jon hatred that exists in this forum for example, I'd say Jon is still somehow a fan favourite. And I think many of those who hate him or are bored with him realize he's important, that he has a big part to play whether they like it or not. Also lands beyond the wall and what happen in them tend to fascinate many readers . On the other hand, I've been looking at some non spoiler threads about the series to see if my non reader friends opinion was widely shared, and indeed it seems that most of the viewers deem Jon useless, stupid (and who could blame them, show Jon is an idiot), uninteresting and his story arc the most boring and uninteresting one of all. I've seen a lot of posts commenting the fact that Danny's arc is an interesting story that seems to belong elsewhere when Jon's is just dull and useless. I don't deny that Jon's character and maybe the ambiance of the far North make it hard to adapt on screen but I don't know, maybe not to that extent.

hk47, on 15 May 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm glad I started these threads.  Probably makes for less arguing on the general discussion thread too, since people can rant more on here about anything they wish.

I'm glad you did too. At first I expected (not wanted , just expected) a forum such as this one to be hard on people who like the show better than the books. I was really surprised that most of the intolerance to other opinions came from people who refuse to accept any kind of annoyance regarding unnecessary deviations. There may be many posters annoyed with changes big or small but I haven't seen many posts criticizing people for loving the show regardless of its accuracy to the books while the other way around is impossible to miss.

birdsong66, on 15 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

SIDENOTE:  They aren't softening Cercei up at all; They are showing her using the weapons in her "woman's arsenal" to attain her ends.  She's softening up Tryion, in truth.   She'll return to her sociopathic ways soon enough, so it's not really a valid nit-pick...it's a deftly performed bait-n-switch, IMO.

I think if it wasn't  their intention to soften her they wouldn't have made Joffrey responsible for ordering the murders of Robert's bastards and Cersei looking uncomfortable and upset about it.Unless she was lying but I doubt it.

Edited by Fantôme, 15 May 2012 - 02:39 PM.

[LordofWinter]

things i didn't like:

-jaime killing his cousin. because i forgot that jaime lannister is actually the blackhearted monster we've all been told about. so much for a redemption arc
-Catelyn not finding out about her boys "being dead". though this stems from my annoyance that Catelyn is at Robb's camp, which stems from my annoyance that Jaime is travelling with Robb's camp, which stems from my annoyance that they refuse to introduce the audience to Riverrun already.
-Tyrion/Cersei + sansa/shae new BFFs? this show has grown a habit of presenting completely different ideas right after another. In one scene we have Cersei wishing utter pain for her little brother and hoping that she is the one who gets to dispense it. and then in the very next scene they share they are some how sitting around drinking wine and chit-chatting about things like they've been friends since day 1. now mind you, had this scene taken place after jaime's escape/release like it was supposed to it would make sense because then she believes Jaime might be dead and is emotional and distraught. in this scene she was just drinking.  shae and sansa went from being complete strangers with justified levels of mistrust to confidants and partners in crime all without the need of pesky dialogue or visuals to get in the way.
-bran/rickon bodies. a bit too obvious, but i'm going to cut the show some slack here because winterfell has been the closest this show gets to the book possible.
-gregor clegane. worst casting ever. he seems as menacing as Robert from "everybody loves raymond", in fact that actor may have done a better job.....i'm kidding
-jon/ygrette. i didn't like it. i'm hoping it gets better. but i think it'll get worse before it gets better.
-varys. where the fuck is this guy?
-Tywin Lannister, world's most entertaining Lord. Tywin does not smile, he does not laugh, and he doesn't offer his food to servants unless he believes it may be poisoned.

things i'm on the fence about:
-Tywin/Arya. at this point i'm convinced that Tywin knows something is up. which is why the scenes with these two aren't making me that upset, because he seems to be subtly probing for more information(offering her his food can be seen as him wanting to see if she had table manners, and he is clearly interested in her past and is not buying her lies), where that becomes a problem for me is when he starts giving her advice on how to continue her charade properly. but i'm hoping that whatever the writers have planned here it works out, because i would hate for the end of Tywin and Arya's time together come about but the issue of her identity isn't brought up at all.
-Stolen dragons. so from what i can get from this story is; they wanted to make XXD look like a worse person, and they needed to add some sort of excitement to dany's story before she gets to the house of the undying or risk people losing interest in her story. both are understandable, but they better play out to actually be interesting instead of just being what i suspect and that they are just ways to overhype dany going to the HotU.

things i liked:
- the karstarks. well casted, well played.
-jaime/Cat scene. great!!! both actors nailed this scene perfectly. i think it would have been better if cat had known about the boys because the amped up emotions would have worked beautifully in this scene. but other than that it was great.
-ygrette. 1-the actress is doing a good job of portraying the role. 2- she finally said "you know nothing, jon snow"
-Cersei/Sansa scene. this to me was one of the few times that the show seemed to understand the feel of the book. I thought Cersei was great in that scene. she was cold, yet slightly warm. Informative, yet misleading. the way she so calmly told sansa what little she had to look forward to in life  made me believe that we'll see the nutcase cersei soon to come. and sansa was great because she looked exactly as uncomfortable and scared as she was described in the books.

Edited by LordofWinter, 15 May 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Grey_Wind]

Pyat Pree's accent, I'm Scottish myself and it's embarrassing when he says "Babies"