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[Book Spoilers] Dagmer and...


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#1 Little Miss Sunshine

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:00 AM

Ramsay Snow - the same person?


After tonight's episode, the feeling some of us had that Dagmer and Ramsay Snow are gonna be one and the same person in TV series just got a lot bigger. Mostly due to the fact that he's taking Ramsay's role on suggesting to Theon that they fake the Bran's and Rickon's deaths.

Also, on the previous episode, Roose Bolton said to Robb that Ser Rodrik had been killed, however Maester Luwin sent the raven before Rodrik was beheaded. How could he have known that, then? (or was it just a sequence error?)

Thoughts, anyone? /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#2 dreamcatcher

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 07:56 PM

Sarah Hughes from The Guardian thinks there's more to Dagmer than meets the eye... http://www.guardian....n?newsfeed=true

I also think that the actor playing Roose and Dagmer look kind of alike (look at the pictures of the actors)

If it's true, it's a good trick by D&D - fooling even us! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I just rewatched the part where Dagmer holds poor Maester Luwin looking at the burnt boys. The expression on Dagmer's face is pure evil. Are they really casting Ramsay - it seems to me Dagmar wasn't this twisted fuck in the books.

Edited by dreamcatcher, 14 May 2012 - 08:00 PM.


#3 turdle

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:12 PM

i'm going with dagmer = little/big walder frey

#4 Sxxman

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:21 PM

Interesting theory because he does have all the traits of Ramsay but I only have one problem and that is that Dagmar looks too old (his actor is 42) to be Roose's bastard son. They look more like brothers than father and son.

Edited by Sxxman, 14 May 2012 - 08:26 PM.


#5 White Harbors Wrath

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:36 PM

Probably the single worst theory in the history of the internet...and this is the same internet slinging stuff around about Sopranos...some of that stuff was really out there...

The idea that someone who:

-is as old looking as his father
-infiltrated Pyke to a degree/length of time that no other Iron Men questioned him being the first mate of the boat when they don't even respect their kings son enough to listen to him
-in case Robb Stark decided to send Theon back to Pyke

...nvm...this cant be real...I'm almost convinced this is a trolling theory at this point.

#6 White Harbors Wrath

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:37 PM

There is a small chance however that Dagmer is Shireen.

#7 Spa▀vogel

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:39 PM

Yeah, I can see why people would think this was true, and if it turned out to be true, I wouldn't be too horrified, but I don't see how Ramsay could be in the Pyke.

#8 Envie

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:40 PM

No, I don't think Dagmer is Ramsay 'in disguise' - but I'm willing to entertain the idea they've merged some of Ramsay's actions and scenes into Dagmer's 'role' in the series that they didn't have time to portray in the series.

They will bring Ramsay in next season the way they are delaying some other characters as well. They've also moved up a few plots from the third book. This re-arranging is fine for the sake of filming and continuity, plus it would be hard to make an entire season only around the events of this one book. Merging the two books somewhat is a good idea since so much happens.

#9 WetHair

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:06 PM

White Harbor's Wrath: I think the odds that Dagmer is Shireen are at least the same that he is Ramsay if not slightly better. VERY good catch as she hasn't been cast either.

Turdle! Big/Little Walder are eight years old! At this time maybe they are seven.

On Theon's demand Maester Luwin sent ravens to his father at Pyke and sister at Deepwood Motte telling of his victory and either Luwin took that to mean he should e-raven everyone on the planet or Theon later told him to announce it to all and sundry. In those e-ravens he must have mentioned Ser Rodrik since Roose told Robb he had ravens from two or three places all saying the same thing. Of course how the ravens found Robb out somewhere "in the field" is another question entirely.

We don't know that Asha doesn't know Dagmer, do we?

Nah, Dagmer can't actually be Ramsay even thiough he is playing Ramsay's pre-sack role. And Roose finally mentioned his Bastard so hopefully he will get with the game plan. I'd hate to think that along with forgetting it was his idea to "kill" Ned Stark's little boys (though in this version I could see why he would forget as it wasn't...) he also forgot that he was a large part of the story. That would be unforgiveable.

But what IS Dagmer's angle? It would be intriguing if Asha hired him to stir up trouble for Theon.

#10 Triskan

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:23 PM

There isn't much that could get me to stop watching the show, but this insanely idiotic theory coming true would be one of them.

#11 House Snow

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:32 PM

Can someone remind me how Ramseys men got into Winterfell. Didn't someone on the inside let them in? If so who is going to let them in this time?

#12 Toccs

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:55 PM

Dagmer definately isn't Ramsay, they've merely shifted some of Ramsay's story beats onto Dagmer in the the same way the Merra and Jorjen have been divided up between Bran and Osha so far.

My guess is that Ramsay will show up in the last episode and punch out Theon looking like a hero, until he then begins burning Winterfell. I would say that in the same episode we will have Roose finally arrive at Harrenhall, which would from that point remove all ambiguity of the Bolton's evil to any non book readers.

Edited by Toccs, 14 May 2012 - 09:56 PM.


#13 Hear Us Roar

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:57 PM

Theon's men let him in. Ramsay was pretending to be reek and get help. His men killed the stark host outside the gate and Theon's men let him in with him yelling not to at the last second

#14 tfoxx22

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:21 PM

There is a small chance however that Dagmer is Shireen.

lol ^

I agree with you that there is no way that Ramsay and Dagmer could be the same person, its just too much of a stretch and I agree that it would take way too much time and guessing for Ramsay to go to pyke and somehow become a first mate on a possibility that Theon would go back there.

#15 Faraday

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:22 PM

There isn't much that could get me to stop watching the show, but this insanely idiotic theory coming true would be one of them.

^^^ this. It's like something you'd see on Dexter. I mean things for the theory are...Dagmar is acting a bit like Reek. Cool. Makes sense. Why ignore the list of things that make it so obviously untrue? Le sigh.

#16 House Snow

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:42 PM

Theon's men let him in. Ramsay was pretending to be reek and get help. His men killed the stark host outside the gate and Theon's men let him in with him yelling not to at the last second


So how are they going to do in the show without the inside guy?

#17 Toccs

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:44 PM

I'm guessing Ramsay and his soldiers will fight their way in. The show seems to be presenting the idea that Ramsay is loyally following Robb's orders to retake Winterfell, I think he will be shown as a hero right up until the moment he starts burning the place.

#18 tfoxx22

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:48 PM

I'm guessing Ramsay and his soldiers will fight their way in. The show seems to be presenting the idea that Ramsay is loyally following Robb's orders to retake Winterfell, I think he will be shown as a hero right up until the moment he starts burning the place.

I like that idea, or he is the hero until he stabs Maester Luwin or someone, then begins to ransack Winterfell and burn it to the ground.

#19 ThePickler

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:56 PM

Looks sadistic enough but pretty damn old.

#20 eyeheartsansa

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:38 PM

Roose has already told Robb, don't worry, I'll be sending my bastard up things to take care of things while you're fighting down here.

We will see Ramsey very soon, I'm confident. I expect they aren't announcing his casting because it would be a spoiler. 'Reek' is going to just look like some random extra.

Dagmer is an Ironborn ship captain who takes orders from Balon Greyjoy.. different person.

They're changing lots of stuff around, but Reek/Ramsey is kind of a big deal and just too terrifying not to put in the show.