[Book Spoilers]Ygritte: Is that a knife, or are you just happy to see me?
Posted 17 May 2012 - 11:14 AM
In our society it happens all the time that grown men are lead around by women just as Ygritte was leading him around, teasing and taunting, subtly offering, I’ve known women that talk just like that when they want to antagonize a male. I have watched grown men spend weeks chasing women who offered far less wanton invitations. I think his naïveté is shown about what he was giving up joining the NW at such a young age, you think this make Jon look weak? I think it make him look like a male. I've heard it said, all men are dumb and all women are crazy.
Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:00 PM
I also read Jon Snow as a very naive boy who doesn't seem to understand how the world around him works. I actually didn't like his story much at all during the second book, just as I didn't like Sansa's. But in the third book, they start to figure out their places in the world, and I liked their characters more and more as they became more confident in their surroundings. Some people say they didn't like Ygritte in the books, but I thought she was instrumental in helping Jon realize his own identity. I think the tv adaptation has been very good so far for Jon. They will still have Qhorin's sacrifice, because otherwise they wouldn't have casted his character.
Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:29 PM
I'm talking about the story Ygritte told about the old lord of Winterfell's daughter which was actually a foreshadowing to Bran in the crypts for the clever reader. In the show Ygritte whined about whose land it was first, but there was no Westeros "culture" in it; just bickering. I don't recall that in the books.
Posted 17 May 2012 - 08:21 PM
Very true. When I read the books, I was on the fence about Jon until Qhorin told him to join the Wildings. He became a lot more interesting in the books thereafter because he actually started learning about life and shaking some of the romantic notions he had been brought up with. He started growing up just like Sansa slowly starts to grow up. And yes, his relationship with Ygritte was instrumental in that to a degree. It was nice seeing him just kind of happy if that makes sense because Jon can come off as rather surly and grumpy and way too serious. Ygritte is a good foil for that. And show Ygritte is awesome.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 05:03 AM
First because it gave a good characterisation of what Jon is at this point. He is an adolescent boy who just simply doesn't know anything about how the world works, and he doesn't know that he doesn't know (typical adolescent attitude). He doesn't come through as someone incompetent (that was quite obvious from season 1), he does come through as someone extremely inexperienced (that is what he is at this point). The TV Jon is a likeable character. It's pretty obvious that he is a very nice guy, he is talented and good-natured. (He also has a solid foundation to build upon.) It's also pretty obvious that he is very insecure just like an adolescent boy should be, and that's it. There is a ton of potential in Jon (event at the end of ADwD) and it will be a pretty easy job to develop his character. I'd say everything is set up for Jon to develop.
Second I loved how Ygritte pounded on Jon's insecurities. It was pretty obvious that Ygritte really sees something in Jon and it's also obvious that she keeps her options open by taunting him. Yes it wasn't high-brow, but hell, she is a wildling, why should she be? Jon's insecurity is so obvious that you don't need to be subtle to confuse him.
Third, the TV viewers learnt a lot from their debates (although it seems that even most wildlings do not know what the Wall is for, which is very strange).
Fourth, Rose Leslie is just absolutely amazing. She transformed Ygritte for me, I found Ygritte a bit brutish for my liking in the books. The TV Ygritte is so much more witty ("I didn't want to want it") and fiery in a non-grotesque way.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 02:24 PM
If he does, however, turn the cloak on Qhorin's order, then all past is forgiven and I can enjoy the scenes on a re-watch.
EDIT: And I just wanted to add, I don't really care how closely the series follows the books, but this is something that I just feel really strongly about. But, I will watch the series nonetheless, so HBO wins anyway.
Edited by Ananta, 18 May 2012 - 02:27 PM.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:39 PM
It's not mine, but yeah, Lucy Van Pelt is pretty much a universal ball buster.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:58 PM
And Kit Harington does a great job of showing how uncomfortable he is by the fact that she's turning him on haha.
"I SWEARS LORD MASTER CROW. WE WAS ONLY TOGETHER FOR WARMTH...AND THEN I FELT IT" - LMAO
Between her and Arya/Tywin that was the only reason I enjoyed the last episode.
Posted 20 May 2012 - 05:42 AM
Both quotes make a good analysis, I feel, and I want to add this: the scenes with Ygritte are used to show how honourbound Jon is. In the books we get the whole Ygritte trying to seduce him after he has 'turned his cloak', and we know he doesn't go for it immediately because he's still trying to remain true to his vows through his thoughts. Even when he finally gives in, he's conflicted about it. They can't give us his thoughts to tell us why he doesn't sleep with her first chance he gets, and he can hardly tell Ygritte he doesn't want to betray his vow to the NW after he has 'turned his cloak', so they had to move that part up in order to be able to show us that his vows mean more to him that a piece of 'kissed by fire' tail. I'm guessing his romance with Ygritte will take of much sooner after he joins the wildlings in the series.
The dialogue about free life north of the wall, and his face suggesting that it does sound appealing to him add to this. What is stopping him from giving in to Ygritte and having the free life she suggests he can have, is the fact that he has taken a vow...
Edited by Fengari, 20 May 2012 - 05:45 AM.
Posted 07 June 2012 - 11:23 AM
For honor, it may not be rational or reasoned but its what makes him more like Ned than any of his trueborn children.
Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:07 AM
Jon wasn't so incompetent in the books
Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:40 AM
Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:47 AM