The Dragon Has Three heads.....(ADWD spoiler)

[Melifeather]

Well stated. After reading "The ice dragon" novel recently I have this crack pot theory that one of Danny's dragons dies in battle (the white one) and Jon has to find his own dragon to become one of the heads... an ice dragon! and another super crack pot theory that the ice dragon will be bran! (with him wraging permanently into the dragons body) therebye fulfilling the promise to him that he can fly (it was a big big deal when he was promised this, I cant see warging ravens doing it as any other skinchanger can do it eventually) .

I have another theory about Jon. Everyone at the Wall thinks he's dead. He's placed into the ice cells until he can be taken to Winterfell's crypt. Jon had dreams about going into the crypts and being told that he didn't belong there. He doesn't belong, because he's not really dead. Melisandre knows this and offers to accompany the body. Prior to this, Stannis gains access to Winterfell through his "Trojan Horse" plan regarding the "pink letter", posing as Manderley and Frey soldiers. Melisandre then can also say she is returning to Stannis's side. When Jon is in the crypts, Melisandre heals his wounds with fire and he is "reborn".

After Winterfell was sacked, when Bran and Rickon were still hiding in the crypts, the wolves saw a dragon in the flames. Many readers suspect that Winterfell has a hibernating dragon, thus the hot springs. This could actually turn out to be a real dragon...the one for Jon.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I have another theory about Jon. Everyone at the Wall thinks he's dead. He's placed into the ice cells until he can be taken to Winterfell's crypt. Jon had dreams about going into the crypts and being told that he didn't belong there. He doesn't belong, because he's not really dead. Melisandre knows this and offers to accompany the body. Prior to this, Stannis gains access to Winterfell through his "Trojan Horse" plan regarding the "pink letter", posing as Manderley and Frey soldiers. Melisandre then can also say she is returning to Stannis's side. When Jon is in the crypts, Melisandre heals his wounds with fire and he is "reborn".

After Winterfell was sacked, when Bran and Rickon were still hiding in the crypts, the wolves saw a dragon in the flames. Many readers suspect that Winterfell has a hibernating dragon, thus the hot springs. This could actually turn out to be a real dragon...the one for Jon.

On one thread about that "dragon" leaving winterfell, we came to believe that it was just wolf speak for the comet disapearing in the morning sky (was the last time the comet is mentioned). Of course that may not be the correct interpretation, but if you read it again with that in mind you will likely reach the same conclusion.

Your theory is cool tho, I would just change the dragon part, and possibly the mel reserrection part. If you believe she is Un-Mel as her chapter seems to hint, then passing on her fire may kill her. But maybe she's Jon's NIssa Nissa and she finally realizes he's AA reborn so she makes the sacrifice.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

For the record, I much prefer the A+J=T theory if Aerys legitimately seduced Joanna and didn't just rape her. Ser Barristan has said that Aerys was capable of being a magnetic presence, particularly when he was younger, and Tyrion was conceived before Aerys went all Howard Hughes-y.

After Winterfell was sacked, when Bran and Rickon were still hiding in the crypts, the wolves saw a dragon in the flames. Many readers suspect that Winterfell has a hibernating dragon, thus the hot springs. This could actually turn out to be a real dragon...the one for Jon.

Nope, sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there. There's no evidence that a dragon has been living in the North in the three books following that chapter. Bran doesn't ever mention to Jojen and Meera that he saw a freaking dragon in Westeros for the first time in more than a century. He doesn't even think about it, not once, ever in the year-plus since that happened. I would imagine that a real dragon would have left more of an impression than that.

[Melifeather]

On one thread about that "dragon" leaving winterfell, we came to believe that it was just wolf speak for the comet disapearing in the morning sky (was the last time the comet is mentioned). Of course that may not be the correct interpretation, but if you read it again with that in mind you will likely reach the same conclusion.

Your theory is cool tho, I would just change the dragon part, and possibly the mel reserrection part. If you believe she is Un-Mel as her chapter seems to hint, then passing on her fire may kill her. But maybe she's Jon's NIssa Nissa and she finally realizes he's AA reborn so she makes the sacrifice.

I don't think Mel is un-Mel. I meant she would heal his wounds with fire similar to Moqorro healing Victarion's hand with fire.

For the record, I much prefer the A+J=T theory if Aerys legitimately seduced Joanna and didn't just rape her. Ser Barristan has said that Aerys was capable of being a magnetic presence, particularly when he was younger, and Tyrion was conceived before Aerys went all Howard Hughes-y.

Nope, sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there. There's no evidence that a dragon has been living in the North in the three books following that chapter. Bran doesn't ever mention to Jojen and Meera that he saw a freaking dragon in Westeros for the first time in more than a century. He doesn't even think about it, not once, ever in the year-plus since that happened. I would imagine that a real dragon would have left more of an impression than that.

Haha...don't get so excited! It's a theory! Here's the passage I was referring to, A Clash of Kings, paperback, page 956, the end of the second paragraph, (Bran/Summer), "...The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone..."

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I don't think Mel is un-Mel. I meant she would heal his wounds with fire similar to Moqorro healing Victarion's hand with fire.

Oh Ok cool. That would be awesome if Jon had heat and smoke coming from his wounds Victarion style all the time afterwards. Would def make him an imposing leader.

I just think she's Un-Mel due to no eating/glamour/echoes of a former life. But GRRM could be intentionally misleading us only to reveal something new.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Haha...don't get so excited! It's a theory! Here's the passage I was referring to, A Clash of Kings, paperback, page 956, the end of the second paragraph, (Bran/Summer), "...The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone..."

I know the passage, and I've been in any number of discussions about this theory, and there is no evidence that Bran actually saw a dragon in that moment. It's fanciful language, which is common when Bran is perceiving things through Summer's eyes.

[Melifeather]

I know the passage, and I've been in any number of discussions about this theory, and there is no evidence that Bran actually saw a dragon in that moment. It's fanciful language, which is common when Bran is perceiving things through Summer's eyes.

I think the evidence is the text I just listed. Interpretation is left to the reader.

[Falconus]

I think the dragon in Winterfell was Jon.(assuming L+R=J) If your right and Jon is sent to winterfell's crypts then he would be the Dragon that rises. Remember in the Mystery Knight Deamon Blackfyre had a vision prophecying a dragon hatching from an egg. At the end we learn that Egg outsmarted the rebels and proved himself a true dragon.

Being a Dragon is more than simply being born a Targ. Aerion Brightflame beleived himself a dragon and died while drinking wildfire to prove it. He is remebered as being a monster like bealor the blessed is remembered for being mad and Aegon the unworthy is remembered for being a serial philanderer. Though Targs none of them are worthy of being called Dragons. Those who have been called Dragons tend to be strong leaders, people of character with strength of will. Dany and Jon can be considered Dragons. Aegon VI seems too childish in comparison.

Tyrion is cunning,devious and intelligent. But he is not a Targ. He is Lannister through and Through. In the books it is never so much as alluded that he is the Mad king's bastard. Tywin disaproved of Tyrion because of his dwarfism. he considered it a personal insult. The character of tywin had a massive complex about being mocked. he believed his father was a laughing stock and spent his whole life trying to create a perfect family, an unimpeachable Noble house and a reputation for briliance. in the end House lannister is overextended. His eldest son refuses to lead the House. His daughter is considered a harlot and is methodicaly destroying everthing he has built. The only salvation for their House is Tyrion whose very existence he considers an insult and who he has driven to patricide, allowed to be defamed as a regicide and never acknowledged. At one point in the book it is described that a lion is running in a field of grass taller than a man. the reference was obviously about Tyrion.

Personally i think the third dragon will not be a Targ but someone who will by the customs and mores of the time become a Targ. By marraige. GRRM stated the ending will be bittersweet. I think that means a someone will most likely sacrifice themselves to save the world type scenario. If it is Jon then another male dragon rider is possible because although a medievil kingdom could accept two queens 2 kings is too much of a mental leap. lets not forget that it may cause civil war later on when the children of one paternal line dispute the legitimacy of the other which is likely to occur. Otjherwise the next D'rider could be female which lets face it is a lot more difficult to fathom because apart from Dany who is there capable or deserving of riding a Dragon.

[DragonSpawn]

On Dragons:

When Aegon the Conqueror went to Dragonstone he had 5 dragons. 2 died... Vaegar and Meraxes became the other two heads of the dragon to go with Balerion.

Based on this maybe we have yet to see another 2 dragons, and Viseryion and Rhaegal could die and need replacing. Let's face it - if one of the Dragons doesnt turn nasty then where are we going to get our Hero Dragon Slayer story from? Also, Moqorro (Black Flame) - promises Victarion he will get his Dragon. (Vic thinks this means Dany - but could very well mean that he captures one of the Dragons at least).

This doesn't necessarily mean he makes it back to Westeros - but could well cause a lot of problems in the East.

There is also the advice Mel gives:

"First the Father must die, and then the son, so that both die kings... to wake the dragon"

Roose has plans to declare himself King in the North given the weakness in the Lannister rule. This creates the opportunity for a Roose & Ramsey combo death...

It's also possible that Ramsey has got Jane with child... who knows!? But waking the Dragon could also mean Jon Snow - rather than a literal Dragon.

Ser Barristan also makes a comment that: "Ice preserves, but small girls and boys will choose Fire every time" - and Fire Consumes! Which could be a hint that Dany may have to switch sides to Ice if she wants to see it through - i.e a possible hint from GRRM that Ice is not so bad.

If any new Dragons are hatched - they would surely have to be Ice Dragons - as i see no other way for a Dragon to become large enough in the time we have left in the books. (Ice Dragons are larger if it's colder - apparently). Bran & Bloodraven could between them - maybe raise another dragon... Maybe Bloodraven will end his own life to wake a Dragon but Bran will need to control it? There are quite a few options... and depends on how much Bloodraven has been influencing events in ASOIAF behind the scenes.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

On Dragons:

When Aegon the Conqueror went to Dragonstone he had 5 dragons. 2 died... Vaegar and Meraxes became the other two heads of the dragon to go with Balerion.

Based on this maybe we have yet to see another 2 dragons, and Viseryion and Rhaegal could die and need replacing. Let's face it - if one of the Dragons doesnt turn nasty then where are we going to get our Hero Dragon Slayer story from? Also, Moqorro (Black Flame) - promises Victarion he will get his Dragon. (Vic thinks this means Dany - but could very well mean that he captures one of the Dragons at least).

This doesn't necessarily mean he makes it back to Westeros - but could well cause a lot of problems in the East.

There is also the advice Mel gives:

"First the Father must die, and then the son, so that both die kings... to wake the dragon"

Roose has plans to declare himself King in the North given the weakness in the Lannister rule. This creates the opportunity for a Roose & Ramsey combo death...

It's also possible that Ramsey has got Jane with child... who knows!? But waking the Dragon could also mean Jon Snow - rather than a literal Dragon.

Ser Barristan also makes a comment that: "Ice preserves, but small girls and boys will choose Fire every time" - and Fire Consumes! Which could be a hint that Dany may have to switch sides to Ice if she wants to see it through - i.e a possible hint from GRRM that Ice is not so bad.

If any new Dragons are hatched - they would surely have to be Ice Dragons - as i see no other way for a Dragon to become large enough in the time we have left in the books. (Ice Dragons are larger if it's colder - apparently). Bran & Bloodraven could between them - maybe raise another dragon... Maybe Bloodraven will end his own life to wake a Dragon but Bran will need to control it? There are quite a few options... and depends on how much Bloodraven has been influencing events in ASOIAF behind the scenes.

:eek: whoa some cool ideas there.

[Melifeather]

On Dragons:

When Aegon the Conqueror went to Dragonstone he had 5 dragons. 2 died... Vaegar and Meraxes became the other two heads of the dragon to go with Balerion.

Based on this maybe we have yet to see another 2 dragons, and Viseryion and Rhaegal could die and need replacing. Let's face it - if one of the Dragons doesnt turn nasty then where are we going to get our Hero Dragon Slayer story from? Also, Moqorro (Black Flame) - promises Victarion he will get his Dragon. (Vic thinks this means Dany - but could very well mean that he captures one of the Dragons at least).

This doesn't necessarily mean he makes it back to Westeros - but could well cause a lot of problems in the East.

There is also the advice Mel gives:

"First the Father must die, and then the son, so that both die kings... to wake the dragon"

Roose has plans to declare himself King in the North given the weakness in the Lannister rule. This creates the opportunity for a Roose & Ramsey combo death...

It's also possible that Ramsey has got Jane with child... who knows!? But waking the Dragon could also mean Jon Snow - rather than a literal Dragon.

Ser Barristan also makes a comment that: "Ice preserves, but small girls and boys will choose Fire every time" - and Fire Consumes! Which could be a hint that Dany may have to switch sides to Ice if she wants to see it through - i.e a possible hint from GRRM that Ice is not so bad.

If any new Dragons are hatched - they would surely have to be Ice Dragons - as i see no other way for a Dragon to become large enough in the time we have left in the books. (Ice Dragons are larger if it's colder - apparently). Bran & Bloodraven could between them - maybe raise another dragon... Maybe Bloodraven will end his own life to wake a Dragon but Bran will need to control it? There are quite a few options... and depends on how much Bloodraven has been influencing events in ASOIAF behind the scenes.

Roose and Ramsay are not kings. They're just Lords.

If Daenerys chooses Jon, she is choosing Ice over Fire.

[DragonSpawn]

:eek: whoa some cool ideas there.

Thanks - I was also trying to avoid talking about the Dragon that Summer sees, but i can't resist... coz that doesn't make any sense to me at all and actually quite annoys me whenever i read that passage.

Firstly it's not a Dragon... it's a snake with wings... a subtle - but maybe an important distinction (Dany's dragon have legs). Could there have been a Wyrm under Winterfell? - if so, why did it suddenly get wings and fly off? Has Winterfell been noticably colder since the sacking? ..and if it was a Dragon - why call it a 'winged snake' - if it has legs it's a Dragon or Wyvern... :bang:

It's roar was not a roar... it was a river of flame... this implies there was no sound... In the book: "The Ice Dragon" - they are completely silent - maybe something...maybe not - it also doesn't specify what colour the flame was - an important point because each Dragon breathes a slightly different flame

But the annoying bit is simply: Bran never mentions it again - if it was me seeing a Dragon i wouldn't shut up about it... so that's weird... and strongly implies it was NOT a dragon... but if it's not a Dragon - or a flying Wyrm or whatever... then that's an incredibly pointless, misleading red herring to throw in ...

I've read most theories on it:

• The burning of Winterfell was a sacrifice that woke a Dragon
  
• It was hiding under the First Keep and escaped when it was destroyed
  
• It was just smoke and fire and wolves and readers are stupid
  

But - we know that Drogon was drawn to the blood and commotion in the Fighting Pit... could a dragon have been drawn to Winterfell due to the blood and commotion of the sacking? - i think not... otherwise Bran may have found it feasting on bodies in the yard... But what if it was a small Ice Dragon? I say small because their size depends on the weather ... and it's not exactly full-on Winter at this point... but (if 'The Ice Dragon' story is anything to go on) - Ice Dragons are a bit heroic... even if it is too hot for them they will fly to the rescue... so what if: The Ice Dragon flew south of the Wall... ahead of Winter... simply to help put out the fires in Winterfell? (Ice Preserves)

Roose and Ramsay are not kings.

... YET! ;)

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Supposedly GRRM says the story "the ice dragon" is not set in the universe of ASoIaF. Not to say there's not any info to be gleaned there, but we might want to avoid direct correllations (ie ice dragons make no sound). It's like you said, if that is just a wolf's description of a comet/fire, GRRM was really messing with our heads there lol.

[Melifeather]

Thanks - I was also trying to avoid talking about the Dragon that Summer sees, but i can't resist... coz that doesn't make any sense to me at all and actually quite annoys me whenever i read that passage.

Firstly it's not a Dragon... it's a snake with wings... a subtle - but maybe an important distinction (Dany's dragon have legs). Could there have been a Wyrm under Winterfell? - if so, why did it suddenly get wings and fly off? Has Winterfell been noticably colder since the sacking? ..and if it was a Dragon - why call it a 'winged snake' - if it has legs it's a Dragon or Wyvern... :bang:

It's roar was not a roar... it was a river of flame... this implies there was no sound... In the book: "The Ice Dragon" - they are completely silent - maybe something...maybe not - it also doesn't specify what colour the flame was - an important point because each Dragon breathes a slightly different flame

But the annoying bit is simply: Bran never mentions it again - if it was me seeing a Dragon i wouldn't shut up about it... so that's weird... and strongly implies it was NOT a dragon... but if it's not a Dragon - or a flying Wyrm or whatever... then that's an incredibly pointless, misleading red herring to throw in ...

I've read most theories on it:

• The burning of Winterfell was a sacrifice that woke a Dragon
  
• It was hiding under the First Keep and escaped when it was destroyed
  
• It was just smoke and fire and wolves and readers are stupid
  

But - we know that Drogon was drawn to the blood and commotion in the Fighting Pit... could a dragon have been drawn to Winterfell due to the blood and commotion of the sacking? - i think not... otherwise Bran may have found it feasting on bodies in the yard... But what if it was a small Ice Dragon? I say small because their size depends on the weather ... and it's not exactly full-on Winter at this point... but (if 'The Ice Dragon' story is anything to go on) - Ice Dragons are a bit heroic... even if it is too hot for them they will fly to the rescue... so what if: The Ice Dragon flew south of the Wall... ahead of Winter... simply to help put out the fires in Winterfell? (Ice Preserves)

... YET! ;)

I would think that a roar that was a river of flame would have a sound...it would sound like a large, roaring fire. And, Bran doesn't control Summer. He's just witness to whatever Summer sees, and Bran was sleeping at the time he was with Summer. He does make consious, awake warging, but this time he was sleeping, so he could have thought the dragon was just a dream and thought nothing more of it. You are obviously convinced of your interpretation, but I am not in agreement with you. Just you asserting something doesn't make it so.

[Black Crow]

I don't think Mel is un-Mel. I meant she would heal his wounds with fire similar to Moqorro healing Victarion's hand with fire.

Haha...don't get so excited! It's a theory! Here's the passage I was referring to, A Clash of Kings, paperback, page 956, the end of the second paragraph, (Bran/Summer), "...The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone..."

"river of flame" sounds like the comet's tail to me.

[Melifeather]

"river of flame" sounds like the comet's tail to me.

That's your theory. Has it been confirmed that the comet was never mentioned again after that?

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Ah, but as far as we know, Jon is Ned's son. :P Anyway, I find it hard to believe that Tywin would raise a bastard dwarf in his household. Now if he didn't know that Aerys was the father, that casts doubt upon aery's fatherin a child with Joanna as the cause of Tywin's disdain for Tyrion. Other factors that point against Tyrion having Targaryen blood are,

1.) No dragon dreams

2.) No known resistance to fire/ heat

3.) Complete Lannister appearence (although this doesn't count for much, Princess Rhaenys apparently looked like a Martell)

These, coupled with the other aruments I gave above, are why I think Tyrion is 100% Lannister. That's not to say he can't still be a dragon rider, GRRM said the 3 heads don't all have to be Targs

Ummm tyrion had dragon dreams? We learned that in GOT. And the whole immune to fire. Was a one time thing it was dany's magic to bring the dragons into the world with the blood of drogo rhaego and mirri maz durr :P

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Yeah I love the opposition to aegon the conqourer it gives. Dany with two husbands and aegon with two brides. Its a very george thing to do.

[Oscurus]

I think the three heads will be Dany plus Victarion and Jon. Dany will ride Drogon, Victarion will use his horn and control Rhaegal and Jon Snow will control Viserion who will fly to the wall. Viserion will represent Jon's father and Ghost his mother, both will stand by his side as he faces the others. Once Jon is reborn from fire Viserion will be drawn to him. Dany first needs to go North to go South, meaning she has to fight the others besides Jon before she can claim the iron throne.

[DaveRoid]

Supposedly GRRM says the story "the ice dragon" is not set in the universe of ASoIaF. Not to say there's not any info to be gleaned there, but we might want to avoid direct correllations (ie ice dragons make no sound). It's like you said, if that is just a wolf's description of a comet/fire, GRRM was really messing with our heads there lol.

Curious fact Ghost also makes no sound... unlike normal dieworlfs/wolfs.

Also there is a mention of Lands of always winter. Dragon riders. Long summers or winters. Old Nan's stories etc etc