Who is the greatest warrior in Westeros?
Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:39 AM
Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:41 AM
Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:45 AM
I cant see Ned using Ice in that fight. A great sword would be just too slow against that company, we have only ever seen it used in executions. In the TV series it is inplied Ned is quite a swordsman since Jamie was looking forward to having a real challange at a tourney when he comes south to KL, but Ned replys spmething along the lines he only does it for real. Also he must have been in many battles in the rebellion and you cant see Ned doing anything but leading from the front, and there is no record of him getting injured like the ferocious but perhaps slightly foolhardy Robert. But I see ned as being more than competent in any company. Traits he passed onto Arya.
I always thought that Ned & Co were on horseback and the three on foot. That would certainly explain a lot.
I don't have AGoT at hand right know so I can't check.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:45 AM
Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:47 AM
All this speculation!!! I just want the next book out asap!
It was 7 against 3, and only 2 survived out of those 7. Even the greatest warrior will lose if he is too outnumbered. Ned mentions that he would have died if not for Howland Reed. Given what we know of the crannogmen, I assume he used poison or nets, basically a technique that regular knights aren't used to, which might give him an edge.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:50 AM
Edited by jon rr stark, 18 May 2012 - 10:52 AM.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:53 AM
But its Ser Grandfather. I just re-read his battle against Kraz... he is in complete control and decimates that mohawk-headed freak. I'd bet on Selmy against just about anyone.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:01 AM
Yeah, I like how the tv series played up Ned's skills a lot more than the books. Good point about Ned's use of Ice. I never really thought about it like that. It always seemed to me though that Ned was more of a leader than a great one-on-one fighter. I don't doubt his ability with a sword, but when discussing the best of all-time, or at least modern-time, Ned isn't at the top of that list.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think GRRM said Ned, while capable, was definitely not one of the best.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:08 AM
Personally I'd go with Barristan or Belwas.
Though if we're allowed dead people then Daemon.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:12 AM
If they did indeed fight while on horseback, I could see that as being a huge advantage. However, why would the Kingsguard leave a guarded position in a tower to fight men on horseback? I think jon rr stark's posit that they all fought honorably on foot seems more likely.
7 on 3 are long odds, but the 3 were all renowned warriors, while Ned, although good, wasn't considered great, and his team consisted of his brother's squires and Howland Reed, who needed Lyanna Stark to defend him against some other squires back in the day.
There is just too much we don't know regarding the conditions of the battle at the ToJ. Maybe Ned Stark had a tommy gun. That would certainly have helped. I'm just kidding...
Edited by Ser Amoc, 18 May 2012 - 11:17 AM.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:25 AM
Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:31 AM
One of Ned's people may have been a squire but so was Josmyn and he killed 2 knights on the Blackwater, wounded a third and took two more prisoner. Also Howland Reed needed help when he was younger and outnumbered 3 to 1. However it is mentioned that he spent the war with Ned so it would be stupid to think he doesn't have some kind of new experience in fighting.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:44 AM
Another scenario has it that right before Ser Arthur is about to kill Ned, he gets poisoned or incapacitated. He knows he is going to die, so even if he fights and kills Ned and Howland, he's dead anyway, and baby Jon, Lyanna, and the other woman are all alone. He stops the fight and tells Ned that his sister has a child, she's close to death and that he must entrust Ned with Jon's life. He knows Ned is an honorable man, and that he is going to die anyway, and Jon must be protected. Ser Arthur then dies of the poison/his wound, or kills himself, or has Ned put him out of his misery with honor. I know this one had plenty of holes but it's romantic and valiant in its own way.
I apologize to whoever read my post that had something about the Mets and the Nationals right in the middle. I was using my iPhone and i pasted it right in the middle by accident.
Edited by Ser Adam Dayne, 18 May 2012 - 11:50 AM.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:58 AM
Also I love Ned, but he is not an elite fighter. He is certaintly capable, and dangerous but he is a teir below the Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Jamie Lannisters (Pre Hand Loss) level. Now that is not saying he could not best them. I look at combat like mixed martial arts only real sporting parallel...sometimes you can have a more skilled fighter face one of lesser skill (think GSP vs. Matt Serra) and an upset occurs. All it takes is one well timed shot and the battle can turn, the elite level just has it happen less often.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:01 PM
it was ned and 6 of his companions vs 3 kingsguard. it boiled down to Ser Arthur Dayne vs Ned Stark & Howland Reed. Ned stated if it wasn't for Howland, Dayne would have claimed his life with Dawn.
The onyl questions being, had ned and arthur been fighting for a while and howland intervened just as neds strength was failing, or was it a straight forward 2 on 1 situation. i like to think ned held his own for a while and howland helped him before dayne could finish it.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:02 PM
Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:05 PM
For the record, I think that we don't really know enough about Ned's other companions to make a sound judgement. Lord Dustin, Theo Wull, Martyn Cassel and Ser Mark Ryswell could all have been very good swordsmen and better than Ned for all we know. And I do think Ned used Ice in that fight, because otherwise he'd be at even more of a disadvantage against Dayne with Dawn. Both are two-handers - superb, very versatile weapons (and not particularly "slow" - swords aren't that heavy, especially not Valyrian steel ones) if you have the skill to use them and you're not in a confined space.
Anyway, I'd put Arthur Dayne or Daemon Blackfyre at the top if we're talking about the "greatest of all time", Jaime if we're talking about the start of the series (I don't think he could beat Barristan in his prime, but surely he must have slowed down with age), and as things stand right now probably Garlan Tyrell. Or Ser Robert Strong.
Edited by rmanoj, 18 May 2012 - 12:07 PM.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:06 PM
He also said without Dawn they are dead even I think he refered to it as a coinflip, and Barristan has a better legacy/more impressive "bouts" in my opinion.
Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:21 PM