Three-eyed crow and the last Blackfyre pretender

[Lord Varys]

As of yet, we don't know why Bloodraven was imprisoned. It's a popular theory that Maekar did it, when he ascended the Iron Throne, but that's by no means certain.

1. It could have been Aerys I himself.

2. It could have been Maekar some years after he ascended the Iron Throne, punishing him for a real crime against the Iron Throne.

More importantly, it's indicated in TMK that Bloodraven intended to continue his de facto rule of the Seven Kingdoms through mad Prince Rhaegel (Maekar's elder brother) and subsequently his twin sons. This didn't work out, obviously.

My guess is that Bloodraven's fall from grace has to do with the death of Rhaegel and his children (and perhaps with the dead of Aerys I as well). Maekar was bitchy and all, but I don't think he would throw Bloodraven into a black cell for the crime of accepting Aerys's offer to be his Hand. Maekar was angry with his, not so much with Bloodraven.

But if Bloodraven is actually responsible for the death(s) of Maekar's brother(s)/nephews he would be really pissed off. After all, Maekar himself slew Baelor Breakspear, so he would be not so lenient with other kinslayers, even if they did everything in their power to prevent the outcome...

[Dragon-Wolf]

That's the one you picked out? What about Mel asking to see AA and all she sees is Snow. What about his dream of killing undead on the Wall with a flaming sword? What about how he just died and have smoke coming from his wound?

Ha Ha. Sorry fox, it was the only one that I could think of that was a direct example of Bloodraven having made an attempt to contact Jon in any way, maybe clutching at straws. But your other broader examples only strengthen my belief that R+L=J and that Jon was legitimzed.

When I read ADWD there was something really cool about the lost prince and son of Rhaegar (is it weird that despite him being dead that he is one of my favorite characters) but its all too fishy to be true when we consider that he just met up with the golden company whose sole purpose is to install a Blackfyre king to the iron throne?

Yeah, he could be the son of illyrio or even Vary's somehow through the male Blackfyre line. As exciting as it is to think that Rhaegars son is alive and gonna kick some ass you have to wonder why Viserys and Dany had no knowledge of him.

Quaith's warning about not to trust the mummers dragon.

Tyrion thinking maybe he is a targaryan "After all" re hissy fit and thinking to himself that Aegon had "Taken the bait" by setting sail to Westeros.

To me that bloodraven had refered to Jon as king through the raven just further implies that Rhaegar only has one living son.

Apologies Fox, I'm new to this and will endeavor to make more detailed references.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I think there's a chance Bloodraven asked to go to the Wall. Perhaps in prison he took to reading a lot of prophecy.

Or making it.

• As a sorceror, he could have looked into the flames and seen several possible futures.
  
• As a greenseer, he could have communed with the old gods and studied what really happened during the Age of Heros.
  
• And as a Targaryen, whose line is known for prophetic dreams, he could easily have had some of his own.
  

I do think "Aegon" is a Blackfyre and not Aegon.

Of course he’s Aegon. You just mean you think he’s Aegon Blackfyre, scion of Daemon, not Aegon Targaryen, firstborn son of Rhaegar.

But he’s still Aegon. And still a dragon, just a black one not a red.

Remember too that as Bloodraven himself said, it would be no surprise if the Blackfyres shared the Targaryen’s magical gifts. A petty legalism doesn’t get in the way of bloodlines. If it did, “Jon” wouldn’t be a warg.

[CrypticWeirwood]

To me that Bloodraven had referred to Jon as king through the raven just further implies that Rhaegar only has one living son.

That’s how I read it, too. I’d really rather it were otherwise, but I’m afraid you are probably right.

[7V3N]

Ha Ha. Sorry fox, it was the only one that I could think of that was a direct example of Bloodraven having made an attempt to contact Jon in any way, maybe clutching at straws. But your other broader examples only strengthen my belief that R+L=J and that Jon was legitimzed.

When I read ADWD there was something really cool about the lost prince and son of Rhaegar (is it weird that despite him being dead that he is one of my favorite characters) but its all too fishy to be true when we consider that he just met up with the golden company whose sole purpose is to install a Blackfyre king to the iron throne?

Yeah, he could be the son of illyrio or even Vary's somehow through the male Blackfyre line. As exciting as it is to think that Rhaegars son is alive and gonna kick some ass you have to wonder why Viserys and Dany had no knowledge of him.

Quaith's warning about not to trust the mummers dragon.

Tyrion thinking maybe he is a targaryan "After all" re hissy fit and thinking to himself that Aegon had "Taken the bait" by setting sail to Westeros.

To me that bloodraven had refered to Jon as king through the raven just further implies that Rhaegar only has one living son.

Apologies Fox, I'm new to this and will endeavor to make more detailed references.

No apology needed. I was just teasing. I like Aegon "Targaryen" but to me, Bloodraven is the coolest there will ever be. I model my Skyrim character after him (starting with bows and sword, going to hit magic late game).

[Seadog]

Have to say I hadn't thought of Bloodraven communicating through Mormonts crow. Makes a lot of sense.

Any reason why the brother he loved isn't Daeron II?

[Rhaegar The Rocker]

If I had to guess, I suspect Bloodraven -- who fought for the loyalists against the Blackfyres -- is somewhat past those politics now. He's 125 years old and has knowledge of a much greater conflict brewing. So I figure he's past the whole Blackfyre-Targaryen thing. Except where it may intersect with the larger fight (PtwP, etc.).

I think there's a chance Bloodraven asked to go to the Wall. Perhaps in prison he took to reading a lot of prophecy.

I do think "Aegon" is a Blackfyre and not Aegon.

I agree. Though I admit I haven't thought about the possibility of Bloodraven manipulating Aegon Blackfyre, or trying to anyways. Bloodraven's powers seem deliberately ambiguous to me. If Aegon's real, has he always known about him? Can he see what's happening in Essos (there are no weirwoods there IIRC)?

[CrypticWeirwood]

I agree. Though I admit I haven't thought about the possibility of Bloodraven manipulating Aegon Blackfyre, or trying to anyways. Bloodraven's powers seem deliberately ambiguous to me. If Aegon's real, has he always known about him? Can he see what's happening in Essos (there are no weirwoods there IIRC)?

Bloodraven does not require weirwoods for his scrying. He told Bran that someday Bran would not, either.

[7V3N]

How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have?

[Rhaegar The Rocker]

Bloodraven does not require weirwoods for his scrying. He told Bran that someday Bran would not, either.

That's right! But I don't get the impression he's totally omniscient. I also don't remember any hints in the books that he knows of Aegon's existence. Could he really somehow interfere with Aegon's plans? We know he directly communicated with Bran, possibly with Jon through Mormont's crow, but can he really be THAT big of an influence on Aegon short of warging a bunch of animals to engage him battle? I don't necessarily believe he can see a prophecy through, or break one if he so desires, simply by observing or communicating through animals/people/dreams. Characters seem like they're gonna to do what they want to do.

I've also been confused by Jojen's knowledge of him. I've always thought Bloodraven was communicating with him this whole time, guiding Bran to him, but is that ever stated (explicitly or hinted) in the book?

[7V3N]

Bloodraven is completely separated from the Blackfyre Rebellions. He is fighting the Others and will do whatever it takes, which may end up causing involvement in Aegon's story. But I think it is more likely for him to get involved in Dany's story, since she had dragons.

IMHO.

[Valkyrja]

This is the point in which I dearly wish we had more Dunk and Egg stories.....but at the same time, I suppose there are some things we aren't supposed to know yet so as not to spoil the actual series. :P

[Crystal Grower]

Maekar was bitchy and all, but I don't think he would throw Bloodraven into a black cell for the crime of accepting Aerys's offer to be his Hand.

I disagree. What we saw of Maekar in The Hedge Knight in the whole ordeal involving Aerion and Dunk is that he is the kind of person to do such a thing because of his pride. Maekar is like his son Aerion, albeit without the sadism.

[7V3N]

From the brief time we had with Maekar, he reminded me of Stannis a little. I doubt he threw Bloodraven in the black cells without a good reason. I think he suspected Bloodraven of manipulating people with sorcery or possibly being involved in the Great Spring Sickness--it was strongest in King's Landing, Bloodraven was not affected, and started along with his reign as Hand IIRC. I suspect he acted without any proof (like BR would give him any) but under suspicion and bitterness.

[Dragon-Wolf]

I disagree. What we saw of Maekar in The Hedge Knight in the whole ordeal involving Aerion and Dunk is that he is the kind of person to do such a thing because of his pride. Maekar is like his son Aerion, albeit without the sadism.

Sadism, like drinking wildfire in the hope that it may turn him into a Dragon? I suppose the mind can work strangely when you are born of incest way back by about 15 generations.

I agree with fox that given how little we saw of Maekar he managed to come across a bit Stannis. He seemed pretty an uncompromising, fairly cold kind of guy. Other than when he agreed to let Egg go with Dunk.

[Crystal Grower]

In the conversation between Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow about Maester Aemon, Aerion drank the wildfire when he was drunk. This is a case of doing something fatally stupid while drunk--something not uncommon even today. Thus, this has nothing to do with sadism or refute my points about Maekar.

[Crystal Grower]

The Hedge Knight amply illustrates Maekar's pride.

Baelor Breakspear on Maekar:

“My brother Maekar returned to the castle a few hours ago. He found his heir drunk in an inn a day’s ride to the south. Maekar would never admit as much, but I believe it was his secret hope that his sons might outshine mine in this tourney. Instead they have both shamed him, but what is he to do? They are blood of his blood. Maekar is angry, and must needs have a target for his wrath. He has chosen you."

Baelor again, on Maekar siding with Aerion's brutal beating of the puppeteer:

". . . well, it was doubtless innocent, but it was far from wise. Aerion calls it a veiled attack on House Targaryen, an incitement to revolt. Maekar will likely agree. My brother has a prickly nature, and he has placed all his best hopes on Aerion, since Daeron has been such a grave disappointment to him."

And of course, the standard Targaryen supremacy spiel:

Prince Maekar gave him an incredulous look. “Did the trial addle your wits, man? Aegon is a prince of the realm. The blood of the dragon. Princes are not made for sleeping in ditches and eating hard salt beef.”

So yes, it is well within Maekar's character to put a political rival in jail for the sole reason of not liking the guy.

[7V3N]

In the conversation between Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow about Maester Aemon, Aerion drank the wildfire when he was drunk. This is a case of doing something fatally stupid while drunk--something not uncommon even today. Thus, this has nothing to do with sadism or refute my points about Maekar.

He believed he was a dragon trapped in the body of a man. That is why he drank the wildfire. The alcohol just made him pull the trigger.

[Gala]

Bloodraven may actually have his loyalties lie somewhere else.... It would be so easy for him to kill Aegon. Why would he kill Aegon? A guy who is 125 years old is not got going to kill somebody for thinking he's a Targ if thats the case. Bloodraven also definitely suspect Daeron the goods kids aren't real targs-they all got sick. YOu think Varys would pull something like this without bloodravens help?

why exactly if they got sick they are not Targs? You actually believe the Targs are immune to everything? that is not true: read all the books and all the Dunk and Egg's stories and you definitely won't have any doubts on that account! Through all their (Targ) history the real Dragons died of fire (from ordinary and magic one, as I understand) and from diseases, so that is not a prove that Daeron's kids are not his because they all got sick. Dany is the one, who is just ignorant or more probably is just mistaken (to ignorant and so confidently be wrong is actually the same), which gave her a reason to think that she is some kind of goddess or something: immune to fire and diseases.

[Gala]

Crystal Grower, I absolutely agree with you about Maekar: he was that kind of person, who would put someone to jail because his personal dislikes or old resentments (although the Bloodraven wasn't a puppy also). It was actually surprising that he let Dunk take Egg with him, but it was probably the smartest decision Maekar ever done.