571 replies to this topic

[It is known.]

Arbor Gold I, on 26 May 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

Also everything has changed if Davos is in charge since you can't blame the foolish way they come up the river on some highborn idiot.

I think with Davos in charge they'll have him being cautious but the highborn idiot(s) won't listen to him because he's lowborn and they'll charge ahead into the wildfire so it won't be Davos' fault.

[Arkash]

The most interesting closing shot, for me, is an helicopter shot of icy/forest landscapes with the three blasts echoing all around...

[Targaryen Kaiser]

Arkash, on 26 May 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

The most interesting closing shot, for me, is an helicopter shot of icy/forest landscapes with the three blasts echoing all around...

I disagree. I'd rather see the shocked faces of the Night Watch men as the last scene of the season. No talk, just their eyes, full of disbelief and terror.

[Ciglon]

Well, for that ending scene I think they'll most likely chop the whole scheming plot aspect of that chapter in order to maybe show more Dolorous Edd and Pyp and Grenn to familiarize the audience with them (not to mention they still have to show the dragonglass to the LC etc), and they'll definitely have the three horn blasts and have Sam say again like "three blasts? [look of horror] that's only for white walkers" (DUN DUN) *fade to black*

With regards to tomorrow's episode, do you guys expect we'll see Tyrion killing plenty of good Stannis' men? Or will they not involve him too much in the action so that he's looking around a lot more? We haven't seen any badass gritty Tyrion in the show yet, just a joking, clever, and sometimes serious one who doesn't get the opportunity to get his hands dirty. Should be interesting, also I hope we get to see the Hound (of course SanSan scene, whatever) but esp. his fear of fire, that would be a brilliant scene, showing the Hound being afraid (and later drunk) for the first time (of many upcoming scenes) in the show. Rory McCann is just so excellent as the Hound, the non-book readers are really getting his character and he's nailed the part so far imo.

[SerMixalot]

LeggoMyEssos, on 25 May 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

I would assume the vault is opened at some point this season - if you watch the HBO GO interactive features, they went to extensive detail in designing the vault, and the key around his neck actually does in fact open the vault.  Seems like a lot of design & construction expense for something that never comes into play on-air.

my guess is that it is empty

[SerMixalot]

Lord Balbi, on 25 May 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Really? A Flashback just to show his armor? My point is that Loras would have to wear a closed helmet to pretend being Renly and we never saw it. It would be a lot easier to show Renly when alive using this kick-ass helmet. The same way we know by heart Gendry's helmet. If they decide to include Renly's "ghost" I just hope it's convincing.

Really? In my opinion the "three horns" is an almost perfect way to end the season. What an awsome cliffhanger. That's what i want. No need to show any fighting right now. Save this for next season budget.

Really?

Edit: grammar

has the show established what 1, 2 or 3 horns means?

[iheartseverus]

SerMixalot, on 26 May 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

has the show established what 1, 2 or 3 horns means?

Yes, Sam told us.  One for rangers returning, two for wildlings, three for WWs.

[SerMixalot]

The Scabbard Of the Morning, on 25 May 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Of course there is no chain, they haven't set that up all season so a chain would be completely deux ex at this point.

I think in the end the chain would have required too much FX and they couldn't do it.

the lack of a chain is meaningless as long as Tyrion's STRATEGY leads to the saving of KL

[SerMixalot]

Ciglon, on 25 May 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Also, I do think as someone mentioned that the safe will contain money to buy the unsullied because in the show obviously dany has no money whatsoever, whereas in the books she did have some money from gifts and selling them etc. (even thgouth she lost a bit bribing people) Although I suppose it's not a huge problem since they could just say she had money to buy the unsullied from Illyrio's ships anyways. Obviously whatever's in the vault can't really be anything of real importance to the plot later on, which just makes me more curious...

if there is gold in the vault and she takes it that will be a huge change to her character, if she buys the unsullied with it.  The trickery she used to get the unsullied is critical to the story IMO.

[SerMixalot]

Lord Balbi, on 26 May 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

I hope she finds all three dragons in the House of Immortals. I`m tired of her whining this season. Don`t want excuses so she can say "i want my poney!" i mean.. "i want my dragon!"

no the liine is "I want my oompa loompa, NOW! With fire and blood!"

[SerMixalot]

stannis does have davos lead the attack, makes him his hand and davos was responsible for mel not being at the BBW

make one wonder why stannis will keep him around next season

[Ciglon]

SerMixalot, on 26 May 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

if there is gold in the vault and she takes it that will be a huge change to her character, if she buys the unsullied with it.  The trickery she used to get the unsullied is critical to the story IMO.

For the record, I wasn't suggesting she will buy unsullied with only gold from the vault. In the books she didn't just trade Drogon for the army, she offered to trade all the gold she had (not a lot), along with the ships and everything in them, then the wise masters said "that's a start, we'll trade for all that...and a dragon". So in staying true to the book, she would still be able to use the 'trickery' you spoke of if she had gold, in fact it would be more true to the story, since dany did indeed leave qarth with more gold than when she entered it from gifts (not shown in the program).

Edited by Ciglon, 26 May 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[towerofjoy]

SerMixalot, on 26 May 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

no the liine is "I want my oompa loompa, NOW! With fire and blood!"

Love that! I almost died screaming...

[King Tommen]

mpbarnes, on 26 May 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Simple answer for disappointment is because I want to see it because it would be great TV.   "Flashback descriptions" aren't exactly exciting TV.  Showing the actual events as they happen is a lot cooler.  I understand we didn't have the battle in the books, that is EXACTLY why I'd love to see it!  Because this is TV they can do things and show things that GRRM didn't in the books.  Since the whole "three blasts" thing also happened in ASOS, I'm not sure what your issue is here.  I'm basically saying that in addition to the prologue they actually show us a bit of the chaos and Sam killing an Other.  This is not a serious jump forward, just showing a little something more that we didn't get in the books.

I would rather see the chaos and some action than just hear some horns, someone scream "white walkers"  and fade to black, that's very cheap for TV. It works in the book because it's a prologue and we know we'll get more later (though it does take 250+ pages).  Having us see Sam slay a white walker is completely within the narrative given that Sam just told us about the dragonglass, getting to see what it's used for makes 100% narrative sense.  And as far as this not being in ACOK, the whole "Three blasts" isn't in ACOK either, so I don't understand that argument.  They're already pulling from ASOS if they include the "three blasts."

If you are following the book narrative, Sam doesn't kill a White Walker at the Fist, the Night Watch gets demolished and they all run off on foot separately for days on end and eventually many are caught by White Walkers and wights from behind.  Sam only kills the Walker that comes on he and Small Paul in the woods on the way back to Craster's keep in desperation after not being able to walk after days and days of running.  That would be a very prolongued method of having your final scene ending just so you can show Sam killing a White Walker and it also kind of deflates the whole mystery of the Walkers at the same time about a minute after re-introducing them.

As far as what is good or bad TV, what seems a more dramatic finish to the season?

1) an intimate conversation between Sam, Grenn, Dolorous Edd and perhaps Mormont interupted suddenly by 1 horn blast (a quick question by Sam about whether Jon is returning) a 2nd blast (where they all scramble to defend themselves against the Wildlings that the audience also believes are coming due to revealing Mance's camp in a very recent scene) and then utter horror and deer in the headlights look on all of them when the 3rd blast arrives. If you wanted to, you could also pan back and show the Walkers approaching up the base of the Fist as the music climaxes, fade to black...

or

2) everything above and then a bunch of fights, everyone runs away, they are tracked for days and Sam stabs and kills one of the unstoppable killing machines and we say "See you next year"

Guess which scene will have more fans talking throughout the course of the year leading up to next season's premiere?

Edited by King Tommen, 26 May 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[isiman]

SerMixalot, on 26 May 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

the lack of a chain is meaningless as long as Tyrion's STRATEGY leads to the saving of KL

Yes, the CHAIN was Tyrion's strategy.In all of his season we saw mostly witty Tyrion and deceitful with Lancel/Pycelle, but nothing showed that he is actually  good in ruling and not only in keeping power.In the books Tyrion does amazing stuff, doesn't make a single mistake and in a few months he is able to get everything ready so he can save a city against overwhelming odds.Where is all of that in the show?

I think GRRM concedes too much regarding the characters, which are the best part of his story.I know that he keeps saying that the show is an HBO creature and not his, but some changes in both details or more important elements (sometimes changes are usefull) make some characters go in different directions compared to the books.Tyrion NEEDS to be the hero, and it has to make sense.There must be a way to make it obvious that Tyrion's strategic element saves the day, so why not use the chain?How much can it cost to have a close shot of a chain + an exposition scene?

[SerMixalot]

isiman, on 26 May 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Yes, the CHAIN was Tyrion's strategy.In all of his season we saw mostly witty Tyrion and deceitful with Lancel/Pycelle, but nothing showed that he is actually  good in ruling and not only in keeping power.In the books Tyrion does amazing stuff, doesn't make a single mistake and in a few months he is able to get everything ready so he can save a city against overwhelming odds.Where is all of that in the show?

I think GRRM concedes too much regarding the characters, which are the best part of his story.I know that he keeps saying that the show is an HBO creature and not his, but some changes in both details or more important elements (sometimes changes are usefull) make some characters go in different directions compared to the books.Tyrion NEEDS to be the hero, and it has to make sense.There must be a way to make it obvious that Tyrion's strategic element saves the day, so why not use the chain?How much can it cost to have a close shot of a chain + an exposition scene?

i think they will tie the wildfire to something tyrion does, barrels of wildfire through the sewers perhaps.  Thus tyrion saves the day,  I agree that if they dont have Tyrion save the day, than it is another example of HBO just not getting it.

[Katydid]

isiman, on 26 May 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

There must be a way to make it obvious that Tyrion's strategic element saves the day, so why not use the chain?How much can it cost to have a close shot of a chain + an exposition scene?

Because apparently, that bit of budget was needed to build an elaborate, actual working vault for XXD's gold, which we may or may not get to see the inside of.  

[ServantOnIce]

Crown, on 26 May 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

I wanted to do the same, but decided not to. If I did I would be comparing the series to books all the time.

After my meltdown last week on this and this website and twitter . . I am relaxed.  I know because of budget, TV adaptations and the other stuff it will not be the same, IT WILL NOT BE THE SAME AT ALL.    Just hope that it is well done, the problem that I have had this season is that  many of the changes made have in my opinion been bad changes.

That is all . .

[ServantOnIce]

For this battle to be done in a more powerful manner it would need to be a 90 minute episode, practically a movie with the special effects of The Battle of Helm's Deep and the ending battle in "Pirates of the Caribbean:  World's End" to get it near right.  That would be in the high tens of millions of dollars maybe equal to the entire budget for the whole season.

Edited by ServantOnIce, 26 May 2012 - 08:48 PM.

[iheartseverus]

addsend, our super Secret Agent with your Big Bag O' Spot-on Spoilers, where are you, pal?  The peeps are becoming hysterical.  We need you, pal.  Like, now.