251 replies to this topic

[Dolorous Nick]

_Oberyn_, on 20 May 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

7. Most of it was good and I was pleased to finaly found the dragonglass. Aryas story fell a bit flat but it can be overlooked. The Lord of Bones was well done. Robbs story is just fucking pathetic It has been dumbed down to some Jerry Springer bs "Are you horny eneough to lose a kingdom". And there is truly no excuse for it.

Robb is a young, red-blooded man who, during a time of extreme self doubt and vulnerability, meets a beautiful yet mysterious young woman who shares his values of compassion and mercy.  This woman has just poured her heart out to him, alone, in his tent.  I don't think it that far-fetched to envision a scenario in which these two end up horizontal on the floor.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Aegon I of Dragonstone, on 21 May 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

Best episode of the 2nd season by far, although you have to be a big book fan AND a fan of good television to appreciate it. The changes they made had to be made! Anyone complaining about the Robb/Jeyne romance is failing to realise that that needs to happen or else he seems like a selfish idiot for forsaking his vows. You need to believe it, and they've done a great job of that, plus she's got to be the most attractive actor in the show which is always a bonus! Fantastic exposition, that didn't seem forced at all, in multiple scenes, most notably Stannis and Davos. Weasel soup seems to have been lost because of time constraints, but other than that the most accurate episode of season 2, even dropping in some book references to the likes of Astapor. Lena Headey is tremendous as always, I cannot fathom why anyone ever complained about her; with the exception of Viserys I think she's the most faithful embodiment of a book character. I was hoping they'd amend The House of the Undying significantly because it just isn't going to translate, but it doesn't look like it. I wish they had more than 10 episodes, but given that they don't, I think a lot of people need to be more understanding about the constraints of time and budget.

Disagree about Robb and Talisa. The show version to me makes him seem like an even bigger selfish idiot. At least in teh books he was wounded and had just learned about Bran adn Rickon, so it made sense that he succumbed to temptation. Here, he admits he doesn't want to marry a Frey and then just sleeps with her after she tells a long story about her drowning brother.

[Dolorous Nick]

Aegon I of Dragonstone, on 21 May 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

The new Mountain is bigger than Conan Stevens

He is taller, true, but significantly thinner and far less intimidating in appearance.  In other words, I wouldn't say that Larry Bird is bigger than Warren Sapp.

[Aegon I of Dragonstone]

Arrogant Bastard, on 21 May 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

Disagree about Robb and Talisa. The show version to me makes him seem like an even bigger selfish idiot. At least in teh books he was wounded and had just learned about Bran adn Rickon, so it made sense that he succumbed to temptation. Here, he admits he doesn't want to marry a Frey and then just sleeps with her after she tells a long story about her drowning brother.

Well as I say, time constraint. Obviously it's not quite believable, but more believable than the romance-building GRRM gives us, which as you know is none. It just couldn't have worked if they didn't show it, but they can't show enough of it because they only have 10 hours. They definitely implied they had been spending all their time together with the start of the walking scene. I wish they gave us 50 episodes and then everything could be perfect, but it's impossible, and I think they did about as well as they could have. Also, someone else made the point that it gives us some much needed background on the slave cities.

[Aegon I of Dragonstone]

Dolorous Nick, on 21 May 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

He is taller, true, but significantly thinner and far less intimidating in appearance. In other words, I wouldn't say that Larry Bird is bigger than Warren Sapp.

You're kind of right, I just checked and he's like 60 pounds heavier. But Conan Stevens isn't really an actor, so the fact that the Mountain actually has to act from now on is a point in the "pro" column for Ian Whyte. He also looks somehow more cold-blooded.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Cersei/Lena Headey gave me chills. Lena's line delivery was magnificently wicked. She's really grown into the role.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

3/10. I wondered if this was unreasonably harsh so I watched a little of it again after dinner - nope, 3 is about right. Dull episode filled with bad writing and bad decisions. The corresponding parts of the book simply aren't this boring or this silly.

Good: The chemistry between Dinklage and the actress who plays Cersei. I like her Cersei - more than I like the book Cersei. More human, less of a caricature.

Bad: Everything else. Too much to list fully but among other things - I thought the invented Dany story-line was intended to inject a little excitement. Why is nothing happening? If nothing is happening, why take up screen time with her? Can't Catelyn even get the motive of learning that Bran and Rickon are dead before turning Jaime loose? It's almost like the writers knew their attempts to portray the boys as possibly dead in the last episode were so weak that they didn't even bother trying to fool Catelyn. When did Bronn the sellsword from the Vale become an expert on the psychology of cities under seige? Are Rattleshirt and his men all deaf? I know Qhorin is a ranger and not a spymaster, but discussing his secret plan with Jon in a normal tone of voice right in front of Rattleshirt's men before starting his fake fight just doesn't seem meant to convince. Nice scenery, though.

Just a lot of nothing in one of the last episodes of the season. I wouldn't even have minded a dumb sex scene to liven things up - oh wait, we got one of those and got to see what Charlie Chaplin's great-granddaughter's butt looked like (quite nice), and it still didn't help. And I'm trying to keep an open mind about changes from the book but I can't think of any tonight that improved the story-telling in any way.

Edited by BoldAsYouPlease, 21 May 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[FirelordSylar22]

As someone who came in through the show, and only read the first book after season 1 ended, I personally thought it was an amazing episode. I love the episodes of shows where we as the viewer know something is about to happen as do the characters, and everything seems just calm, but you can tell that shit is about to hit the fan. Calm before the storm.

I can understand some book purist disliking changes(I am a hardcore fan of the Harry Potter series and of course some of the changes to the films angered me, some were understandable, some were stupid.), but as a fan of the show, this is some of the best television I have ever seen, and until it stops being enjoyable, I will continue to love it no matter what they do. Good television is good television, no matter where it comes from.

Hope that slightly coherent.

Also, on a side note, it angers me that on this entire site their are very few threads I can visit, I now officially hate the phrase "BOOK SPOILERS"

[Hyper]

I gave this episode an '8'. Great episode, much smoother flowing than the last one. The longer scenes really do help.

Favorite bits:
+ Tyrion/Varys
+ How Jon + Qhorin being captured neatly makes Jon's wanderings in the last two episode make much more sense - nice plot simplification
+ Grenn finding the dragon glass
+ Theon + Yara's conversation
+ Cersei/Tyrion
+ Talisa not being Jeyne - if true, great. I don't mind.

Iffy bits:
- How the Talisa/Robb situation will work out. I'm willing to let it play out before I judge.

[Evamitchelle]

Meh. 6/10. I was mostly bored the whole way through.

Pros :
- Theon's scenes are good as always.
- I'm glad to finally see more of Varys. I find him so much more interesting than LF.
- Jaime/Brienne.
- Cersei/Tyrion.
- Seeing Sam again. He's the reason I found Jon's early scenes watchable.

Cons :
- I'm wondering how they're gonna sell Arya becoming an assassin. Her little stint in Harrenhal was pretty tame in the end. She didn't even kill the guard herself.
- Jon bores me as always.
- Robb and Talisa. If I wanted cheesy hollywood romance I wouldn't be watching GoT.
- Robb and Cat.
- No Sansa.
- No one knows Bran and Rickon are dead.

[salt]

Beautiful episode.  I don't know what caused the lull in the early episodes, but GoT has securely reclaimed its spot as one of the best shows on television.

[Morrigan]

No chain, no weasel soup, no Arya killing her own guard to escape Harrenhal, Catelyn's character is nearly destroyed, Jon/Qhorin is meh, Dany is annoying, almost nothing happened in this episode. Barf. 4/10, worst one yet.

But hey, at least we got the story of Talissa!

Fuck you, D&D. "We really love and really respect the source material", my ass, you keep raping it for no reason and missing the point of the characters. Give the scripts to writers who know what they're doing, please.

[Eira Seren]

We gave it an 8.  Like last week's episode, this was one of the better episodes this season (I give last week's a 9).  I'm not in love with the romance stuff with Robb, though a portion of it is certainly believable.  And I really enjoy Jon's interations with Ygritte, Rose Leslie is really holding her own.  Tyrion, any scene with Tyrion is almost totally brilliant.  I like that he is finally interacting more with Varys, and thought that Tyrion's annoyance with Bronn was amusing, some great emotional intensity in all of Tyrion's scenes.  These three work well together.

Rolled my eyes a little during the Dany scene, just par for the course this season, I guess.  We didn't see Dany nursing the dragons last season, for some reason though I thought maybe that had been implied at least, so Jorah's line about her not nursing them seemed strange.  It will be nice to see the house of the undying. .  . if we ever get there.

Arya's scenes were pretty good, enjoyed her exchange with Jaqen.  The look on his face when she names him!  He really landed it.

One thought I do have: in a season that draws from source material that doesn't have as much action, what drives the decision to cut some of the (still usefull to tv-plot) existing action?  While I appreciate the time we spent with Ygritte last episode, I find myself pondering the two ways the scenes with Jon are panning out:

1. the wildling girl you couldn't kill makes a quick getaway.  there's a short chase followed by tying her up; she grinds her hips against yours, then you exchange some banter and have a stroll through beautiful scenery, followed by another quick escape, only to discover she has outwitted you and you are ambushed.  later you discover your companions have all been killed, your leader also captured, and now the two of you plot to try and outwit them while taking another stroll through beautiful scenery.  (in fairness, the season isn't done yet)

[SPOILER]
2. in trekking in the general direction of the wildling girl you captured and let go, hoping she doesn't alert your enemy to your presence before you can find them, you discover you've been marked and, wisely, high tail it back the way you came.  your leader, with precise thinking, says if you are captured, you must yield and no matter what make them believe you are breaking your vows, so as to turn spy. grudgingly, you agree. despite your attempts to outrun them, you find yourselves cornered.  there's the girl (you've been secretly thinking about her, admit it) and a bunch of the enemy.  you follow the plan, switch sides. they want you to prove it.  and now your commander rushes you with his sword, playing a brilliant, worthy-of-Tyrion hand.

I think a great deal of 1 worked well on screen, especially considering time constraints (and there's the added bonus of the grinding hips).  Yet.  Once, my professor asked: where is the action in a Victorian novel?  Mostly, it's in the dialogue.  And the sex is in the little details, like the sleeve that rides up and reveals the bare forearm.  Like I said, I enjoy the dialogue and much of it contains action.  However, sometimes I wish this season felt a little less like Pride and Prejudice and a little more like GOT.

Edited by Eira Seren, 21 May 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[insertname]

Ok, I was reserving judgement until now, but they officially botched Harrenhal by making Tywin look like a real fool. Why in seven hells would he just leave her there like that? Why does he make no connections to the assassination of Amory Lorch?

Whether I'm happy with the arya development will be decided with the last two episodes...

The chain will still come, don't worry.

Oh yeah, and I'm annoyed by the Talisa storyline. Apart from the obvious cheesy hollywood romance, how in seven hells does Catelyn allow Robb to act like that? After she has been arrested, fine, but she would have put a real stop to that from the moment she found out, with more than her stupid line of "I wish you could follow your heart" BS.

[JW.]

6/10

Half of it was good, the other half was just subpar as usual for this season. Why release Jaime if they still think Bran/Rick are alive, it really makes little sense. Robb and Talisa, a romance plot straight out of a bad Ashton Kutcher romantic comedy. Harrenhall was fine this episode, atleast no last second assassinations.

Jon and Ygritte: Liking it so far, luckily we see the Halfhand is still alive and we be seeing that amazing scene later on. Rose Leslie is one of those actrices who has improved on the book's character, she is more likeable and still fierce and independant.

Stannis and Davos: Good scene aswell, although i still think that Stannis is a bit to like able.

Dany: What a load of sappy sh*t, i had to skip through most of it. So many of these scenes are just going nowhere at all, i started disliking the character around ADWD, but the creators of the show have managed to do so by the second season already. Quite the accomplishment.

Dinklage is the best part of the episode, as always. Oh, and Cersei finally is being like.. Cersei like, nice! I have been waiting eight episodes for those scenes and they finally decided to show us one, and it certainly didn't disapoint.

[J_Crews]

Dolorous Nick, on 21 May 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Robb is a young, red-blooded man who, during a time of extreme self doubt and vulnerability, meets a beautiful yet mysterious young woman who shares his values of compassion and mercy. This woman has just poured her heart out to him, alone, in his tent. I don't think it that far-fetched to envision a scenario in which these two end up horizontal on the floor.

I agree a kajillion percent

[Ser Chuck]

I'm going with an 8, rather uneventful but very true to the books compared to the last few episodes. I feel like this one was tying up some loose ends and getting things back on track to the major plot lines from the original story in preparation for George RR Martin's epic bloodbath next week.

[Michaelj]

I gave it an 8, not as good ad previous episodes but was still good.

[The hairy bear]

7/10

IMHO; the problem with this episode was that it had to make up for the shortcomings of the previous ones. I think it's too late to have a scene explaining Stannis background and why he was at odds with Robert, or a scene with Robb remembering his father, or to introduce Talisa's background. Those scenes would have worked fine in previous episodes, but all together in a a single hour felt contrieved.

Still, the scene between Tyrion and Cersei was pure gold. One of the best actings from Peter and Lena so far.

[TC_Chaos]

8/10

This episode was kind of boring. It's kind of hard to enjoy when you already know the plot. The last two scenes of Dany and Bran were emotional so it was a good ending for the episode. Well, next episode is gonna gonna have the most action so we'll all see, I guess.