206 replies to this topic

[SerMixalot]

Rapsie, on 20 May 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Although she has had a descent amount of screen time, this season has been as void of characterisation for Arya as it has for Sansa. Both girls have had the developments in their stories and personalities removed. Ayra became the ghost in Harrenhal and Weasel Soup and her killing a Guard and basically manipulating Gendry and Hot Pie to leave with her, were huge steps in her development. They have been completely removed and it now appears that she just has saviours who swoop in and rescue her (the scene where Tywin works out she's a girl and makes her the cupbearer for example). Arya has been saved by Yoren etc, but she also used her initiative in Harrenhal and it developed her personality.

correct, dont you know that being a victim and classic princess needing rescue makes for a perfect ninja

[House Snow]

No offense but Arya killing Grown men in armor at this point is in no way believable.

[SerMixalot]

House Snow, on 20 May 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

No offense but Arya killing Grown men in armor at this point is in no way believable.

why, it was perfectly believable in the book, here is a coin, oops dropped it, expose neck, slice neck

perfect

instead we are left with zero empowerment for the one female character that has continously shown growth through the series.

how is one to believe this girl is capable of becoming a FM, sorry i just cant

[towerofjoy]

She stabbed the stable boy in season 1 - and think she'll stab Polliver at the crossroad inn next season. Plus, by then she'll have lost her father, mother and brother - and will hear from the hound (or someone) about Winterfell. Desperation will push her into going to Bravos, which is in keeping with the books. It's not like she did it with he intention of becoming an assassin.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Yeah, that was pretty lame and didn't make a whole lot of sense. She went from wanting Tywin dead to naming Jaqen to then wanting to escape in about a minute. They should have at least had a quick scene of Gregor being horrible or something, so that it made it clear that's why she wanted to leave. I guess that's why they left in that scene with Rorge, but I didn't really buy that one short scene as the sudden reason for her wanting to escape.

Poorly done; pretty disappointed in the Arya Jaqen arc that the show has taken. THey haven't even made him that mysterious; he's just the smiling foreign guy that kills people for Arya.

[summer_stark]

towerofjoy, on 20 May 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

She stabbed the stable boy in season 1 - and think she'll stab Polliver at the crossroad inn next season. Plus, by then she'll have lost her father, mother and brother - and will hear from the hound (or someone) about Winterfell. Desperation will push her into going to Bravos, which is in keeping with the books. It's not like she did it with he intention of becoming an assassin.

even if desperation pushed her to braavos, she wouldn't stay at the house and black and white if she wasnt ready.  the point isn't that she intended to become an assassin -- it's that these are some of the events that put her on that path.  otherwise, why not leave the hob&w and go to the wall?  we are just talking about character development, and how she became who she was by the end of adwd.  the stable boy was an accident.  the other deaths were intentional -- she killed men during the yoren take down and the guard was a very deliberate move of killing someone who was merely "in her way" to use jaime's words.

and like arrogant bastard and i have said -- it made very little sense that she named tywin, he said not now, she named jaqen instead. jaqen bristles. she doesn't say go kill tywin now or i wont take the name back.  she says help me escape.  why? where did that come from? so left field.  it wouldve made more sense if she'd ask for him to help and then he denied her.  b/c asking re: tywin and he says cant do it -- anyone else sure, but tywin has plot armor--is just contrived -- especially since we know he can kill fast.

[Faraday]

Eh. I am a bit disappointed we didn't get to see Arya take a life on escpaing Harrenhall. I guess it can just be moved to a later date, maybe in episode 10? Obviously she'll still get the coin - that's too important to drop. It's weird, I've liked the Arya plotline this season but it's very different than the books and I'm wondering how it'll affect Arya as a character. She really shouldn't be the same, but I get the impression she will be?

I mean I guess even considering what she went through it sort of makes sense, but the book was a much more traumatic experience for her. So yeah, while I had no actual problems and liked the scene it is a bit of a departure from the books.

[Risha]

Miss the weasel soup, but not surprised--too much set up without future plot development. Little miffed that Arya did not have to kill a guard to escape, but I do think that D&D are doing a decent job of balancing viewer expectation (can't have kids killing people left and right on TV, even HBO) and showing Arya's growing sense of empowerment. They are VERY lucky that Maisie is so great: killing the stable boy with just the right amount of freaking; cool as a cucumber when the "gold cloaks" come looking for her; verbal sparring with Tywin (still don't like that Tywin change, tho); her serious consideration of slitting Tywin's throat; taking control of Hot Pie by the ears. I see the development clues on screen and would probably get it without my book knowledge. I have faith in the intelligence level of those drawn to watching GoT without prior book-reading, and applaud D&D for their efforts to maintain the spirit of the story within budget and time constraints. Still enjoying seeing my imagination come to life on the screen!

And can't say enough about Maisie! YOU GO GIRL!!

So much more awaits in the last two episodes: the coin and the dissolving of Jaquen, the BWB, the House of the Undying, J & B sparring, a certain death beyond the Wall, wildfire and the chain and the whole battle. Can't wait!

[Darth Pipes]

The sanitizing of Arya's character this season has been a disappointed.  Granted, she's ordering murders so she's not innocent.  But she didn't kill anyone during the "battle" at Castle Darry and she didn't even kill the guard to get out of Harrenhal.  No Weasel soup, as the writers apparently decided to take a good scene from the books and make a bad one for the show.  Arya's Harrenhal storyline ends with an epic fail.

[Gogossos]

From a production point of view, I understood that having Charles and Maisie in the same set meant hey did what they did. Because of the addition of extra Dany and Robb scenes, they had to cut Arya's journey etc etc. My problem is that a. the whole weasel soup scenario was too good to drop and b. while the plot will catch up with the books later on, the character won't and this will make it feel awkward next season.

[Frumpus]

Who's to say she'll even become a FM? People are quick to forget that the tv show is diverging big time from the books next season.

[summer_stark]

Frumpus, on 21 May 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Who's to say she'll even become a FM? People are quick to forget that the tv show is diverging big time from the books next season.

that would be such a bummer.  i could see it, which is even more of a bummer.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Hopefully Jaqen meets up with Arya, someone sees the guards dead and some people chase them down.  Than Arya can get in a kill and it doesn't look too ruthless.

[ManyFacedOne]

What an anticlimactic escape. I would've been happier if they just set up her escape this episode and saved the actual escape for the ep 10 (9 is all BW). I actually thought for a second there she was going to slit some guard's throat, but they skipped that for some reason. It's important for where she's headed that they don't skip that though, so I'm hoping that she'll kill someone in ep 10 to make up for it -- Polliver perhaps?

Frumpus, on 21 May 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Who's to say she'll even become a FM? People are quick to forget that the tv show is diverging big time from the books next season.

It's sad that people even consider this a possibility. Though I can't blame anyone, what with the direction the show has been taking with several characters and all.

[Envie]

At first I was really disappointed the weasel soup plot was being cut from Arya's Harrenhal story because like many others, it was one of my favorite parts in the book. But in thinking on it from a filming standpoint, I think I can understand maybe why they decided not to put it in and instead have Arya be Tywin's cup bearer for the entirety of her captivity there.

Here's my bullet points on possible reasons why they decided to play it the way they have:

- Making Arya Tywin's cup bearer gave us tons and tons of exposition material. She was basically privy to every battle plan he made. And even though we know she can't do anything about it, its still a great tool for us, the invisible audience, to get filled in on a lot of details as they played out.

- The casting and scene shoots necessary to make Arya become "Nan" and "Weasel" and even the "Ghost of Harrenhal" would have been immense and they've already put a lot of effort into making Harrenhal look pretty believable with the number of cast members and extras there. All that for a few scenes in a couple of episodes. They had to look at the overall cost of scenes that basically do not propel the story line forward overall. YES, I agree, its immensely important for Arya's personal character development, but was it really that important for the overall story of the war happening outside the castle? No.

- Complicating Arya's 'journey' down the dark black hole towards future assassin at this point in the series isn't really as necessary as everyone may think it is. For the viewer who doesn't know the books, they're getting a pretty good idea that Arya's not your 'average' little girl and that her thoughts and motivations are becoming much more adult-like and moving her further and further from innocence. I don't think anyone's going to feel she's lessened by the lack of murders at this point. She's still quite a ways away from the worst of it in her story.

That being said, I do agree with those who felt she should have at least had one death scene with a guard to better solidify her bravery and willingness to kill for what she wants. She's already showing more balls than hot pie and gendry combined, but having them see her kill a man would have really put her in perspective for everyone. I wonder if they're still playing her down as a 'helpless' child until after the finale of this season and her journey to Bravos.

I also thought the naming of Jaqen scene was a little more awkward than I had hoped for and I would have preferred it play out more like the book, except that they've changed all that so its letting their lesser skill slip a bit in comparison to how Martin deftly twisted the plot for us. They've done a magnificent job in other areas with the changes they've made so I have to assume that this was just a little bit of a stumble over dialogue that had to be changed since there's no captives to be freed and they wanted a way for that scene to play out with the same emphasis on her clever ability to twist Jaqen into doing what she wants. Much more awkwardly done however.

[LordofWinter]

Can somebody tell me who this girl is and why we are following her story instead of Arya Stark's? The Arya I know didn't sit and reminise with Tywin Lannister. And she didn't just walk out of Harrenhal without any blood on her hands. Mind you I always felt bad for the poor
girl to have had to turn learn to murder people
at such a young age; which is why she was
always my favourite character, she had faced
harsher scenarios than most of the knights or
great lords we've read about in this series. The
show has seriously "Sansa-ed" up her story line.
Honestly what's the worst Arya has it in the
show? All of her hardships are gone.


-selling pigeons to survive
-escaping Amory Lorch and his bag of douche
-leading hotpie, gendry, and lommy through the
woods safely, with her excellent sense of direction/understanding of nature
-trying to rescue gendry
-weese
-roose bolton and his men
-weasel soup
-having to kill a man in order to escape Harrenhal

At this point she barely resembles the character i know, worried about and loved reading. SOOO MAD RIGHT NOW!

Edited by LordofWinter, 21 May 2012 - 03:04 AM.

[Morrigan]

It was garbage and these idiot writers are ruining Arya's character. The only way they can redeem themselves (and Arya) is by having her kill someone in cold blood. And soon.

[Lord of the Night]

Arya's story has been completely ruined. First they kill off The Tickler, robbing Arya of a vital scene down the line where we see just how much her travels have affected her and her attitude towards killing. Second they kill Amory Lorch which takes away the bear pit scene and Arya's line about it being a black bear, just like Yoren. Now the frakking weasel soup has been cut?! I predicted that this would happen when The Tickler died, and it has happened. Now Arya has virtually no kills to her name, which has destroyed her character development.

The writers are clearly trying to keep Arya innocent, but that is not what her frakking story is about! If we want an innocent little girl in a dark world we have Sansa for that, Arya is the adapter that is becoming as dark as the world. And I doubt Game of Thrones will show that.


LotN

[WITCHKING]

Where is the Goat?

[Nagisa Furukawa]

Here's the thing about Arya's story at Harrenhall; in the books, it's clearly split up into two distinct sections. One where the Lannisters are in control of it and another where the North is. For many reasons, this has been compressed into one storyline where it's only the Lannisters. There are many clear reasons for this; it gives us Arya as Tywin's cupbearer instead of Roose's thus providing tension and exposition, it allows Roose to stay by Robb's side and set him up as Robb's right-hand man over this season and the next, making his murder of Robb at the Red Wedding all the more shocking, and just the general issue of limited time to tell this story.

I bring this up because "weasel soup" is inherently linked with the idea that there are two sections of Arya's Harrenhall story. It's a transition between the two with the freeing of the North men and whatnot. Without the North coming to Harrenhall (and without the "Weasel" stuff at all since Arya's second-half-of-Harrenhall material, being a cupbearer, was chosen as her role there in the show), there's really no need for weasel soup other than the fact that it is (admittedly) a pretty cool scene. But from a pragmatic point-of-view, it makes absolute sense to merge Arya forcing Jaqen to do her bidding by using his name and their escape from Harrenall.

Same with Arya murdering the guard. That's the "finale" to the second half of the Harrenhall material, after she's given the coin by Jaqen and is becoming darker and more ruthless. She's not there yet as a character so it makes total sense not have her do it this early. But next season? I'd bet good money that the Harrenhall escape scene from the book is adapted in some form in a future scene. The show's truncating the actual events of Arya's story, it's true, but from what I can see, it's still headed for the Brotherhood, the Hound and Braavos, with all the darkness and murder that implies.