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[Book Spoilers]Ros/Alayaya


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104 replies to this topic

#41 SerMixalot

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:02 AM

One thing I found believable about Ros is that I can buy her defending Tyrion. She has to figure if she is outed as not being Tyrion's lover she is goat food

#42 ThePrinceOfSunspear

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:34 AM

At this point nothing the show does shocks me anymore so the change wasn't startling.

The scene between Tyrion and Shae however was surprising dull and unbelievable. I simply just buy the fact that he cares for her. Its just fake.

Weak episode overall. Catelyn releasing Jaime without Bran and Rickon being dead is just pathetic.

#43 Prince of Dragonstone

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:43 AM

Doesn't matter what it is, some people on this board will never accept ANY change whatsoever from the books. Even if it's well done like this particular scene. They couldn't have included Alayaya. It would have required too much set-up for such a minor character. Ros was the most logical stand in and I think the writers did a great job of tying her into it.

STOP COMPLAINING OVER EVERYTHING. If you don't like the goddamn show then TURN THE CHANNEL.

#44 SerMixalot

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

Doesn't matter what it is, some people on this board will never accept ANY change whatsoever from the books. Even if it's well done like this particular scene. They couldn't have included Alayaya. It would have required too much set-up for such a minor character. Ros was the most logical stand in and I think the writers did a great job of tying her into it. STOP COMPLAINING OVER EVERYTHING. If you don't like the goddamn show then TURN THE CHANNEL.


Caution Strawman Alert

Who doesnt accept ANY change?

that is pure nonsense.

I have been as critical as anyone, cause the changes are a. against known characterizations b. inherently inconsistent and c. illogical and d. cliche

I have praised repeatedly the handling of Theon's and B &R's story. Even with the changes they are doing an excellent job of adapting the story without the cliches and inconsistencies and radical changes to characters.

#45 David Selig

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:54 AM

It's fine by me, we all saw it coming a year ago anyway. Ros had to have some point for the plot apart from being a sexposition tool. The writers could've done a better job with Cersei's reasoning (a lion necklace is pretty weak), but that's extremely minor.

#46 Mulled Wino

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:19 PM

Really? You don't see what a difference it makes if the wealthy aristocrats are beating up on a black girl versus a white one?


I dont....................

#47 Mulled Wino

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

Lazy writing? Lazy commentary in this thread is more like it. Honestly, do you people even pay attention when you're watching? It is obviously strongly hinted as others have said that Varys tipped Cersei off as a misdirect. It's also obvious that Cersei would never pay attention to what a whore was doing and clearly never even saw the whores Tyrion "gifted" to Joffers. The only one who saw them was the Hound, who very obviously WASN'T THERE in this scene at all. It was Mandon Moore instead. The move makes sense. No, it's not perfect, but given the economy in which it was all handled, well done D&D.


So clear was the hint that it wasn't picked up on by my wife. Actually, there was just as much of an insinuation from Cersei that HER OWN spies figured out that Tyrion was in love with Ros. So no, its not as clearly inferred as you say it was.

I agree that the argument about Ros being sent to Joff is a weak one as Cersei wouldn't know.

#48 Tourniquet

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:29 PM

But why would Ros put up with it and not at least say something, anything?!

#49 Bride of Winter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:13 PM

I think it theoretically would have worked, except in my mind Ros has become such a joke.

Literally when they were about to bring "Shae" out I whispered 'just watch it be Ros...'

/bang.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bang:' />

Edited by Bride of Winter, 21 May 2012 - 01:13 PM.


#50 clarkside

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

They actually set this up in season 1. When Theon is with Ros after the royal party leaves Winterfell he notes the chain that Tyrion gave her, calling it a "good tip." She's been wearing it almost every time she's on screen in season 2.


Well spotted!

Consolidating Ros and Alayaya works for the show. That scene would have more impact if it had been done at court like in the book. Oh well, it could have been worse.

#51 Lady Tippy Wolfsbane

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:54 PM

Why would Ros bother playing along when she presumably doesn't know of any hidden whore, when last time she did something for Tyrion she had to torture a coworker, and when now she is the one being tortured?

If she didn't play along what do you think would happen to her? All she knows is that she has been beaten as Tyrion's secret whore, and Tyrion has promised that everything will be okay. In the past he has only shown her kindness, so I assume that she feels he's her only chance of making it out of this. Not to mention he will probably pay her extremely nicely for her trouble.

Something tells me D&D were thinking the tv audience would have short term memory.

I think they were expecting the audience to be a lot more perceptive.

so we are to believe cersei thinks tyrion loves ros enough to be effected by cerseis threats of pain and death, but cersei also believe tyrion doesnt care enough about her that he would allow joffrey (a person she knows tyrion doesnt like) to have sex with her? that is logical to you?


Cersei doesn't know the identity of the whores that were sent to Joffery. Why would she?

this was an insult to our intelligence. such a key example of what has been a really valid complaint. they have scenes in their mind, and then don't know how to move the pieces to get there logically. there is no reason, that we as viewers would know, that cersei would think tyrion wa sin love with ros. we know she has spies watching him. they probably would have seen the zero contact he has had with her in kings landing. just bad bad bad writing.


Her spies haven't seen him have contact with any whore in King's Landing, which is why she turned to Vary's for assistance. Her spies more than likely did notice the necklace around Ros' neck, and that Ros seems to have some superiority over the other whores in her brothel, as evidenced by the show. It's not bad writing, the writers are overestimating the ability of their audience to follow the story.

Lazy writing? Lazy commentary in this thread is more like it. Honestly, do you people even pay attention when you're watching? It is obviously strongly hinted as others have said that Varys tipped Cersei off as a misdirect. It's also obvious that Cersei would never pay attention to what a whore was doing and clearly never even saw the whores Tyrion "gifted" to Joffers. The only one who saw them was the Hound, who very obviously WASN'T THERE in this scene at all. It was Mandon Moore instead. The move makes sense. No, it's not perfect, but given the economy in which it was all handled, well done D&D.


/agree.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':agree:' />

#52 Prince of Dragonstone

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 02:12 PM

Caution Strawman Alert Who doesnt accept ANY change? that is pure nonsense. I have been as critical as anyone, cause the changes are a. against known characterizations b. inherently inconsistent and c. illogical and d. cliche I have praised repeatedly the handling of Theon's and B &R's story. Even with the changes they are doing an excellent job of adapting the story without the cliches and inconsistencies and radical changes to characters.


It's the nitpicking that I cannot stand and this is obvious nitpicking. What objections could you have to this scene other than that it deviates from the book? It's already been explained very clearly by other board members how and why the scene works with Ros, yet you still choose to defend this false argument. You're LOOKING for something to find fault with. Of course you'll deny this...

#53 Tadco26

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 02:47 PM

I think Tyrion had more chemistry with Ros in season 1 than he ever has with Shae.

Ros's interactions with Tyrion in season 1 were much closer to how book Shae treats Tyrion than TV Shae has ever been. Perhaps the actresses should have switched roles.

They could have even had Shae introduced in episode 1 the same as Ros was, with her turnip cart ride from Winterfell ending up in Tyrion's camp rather than King's Landing, leaving her in Tyrion's tent again. Then have the actress playing Shae take over the high dollar littlefinger whore role, which might have suited her more.

#54 Pellaeon

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

I think Tyrion had more chemistry with Ros in season 1 than he ever has with Shae. Ros's interactions with Tyrion in season 1 were much closer to how book Shae treats Tyrion than TV Shae has ever been. Perhaps the actresses should have switched roles. They could have even had Shae introduced in episode 1 the same as Ros was, with her turnip cart ride from Winterfell ending up in Tyrion's camp rather than King's Landing, leaving her in Tyrion's tent again. Then have the actress playing Shae take over the high dollar littlefinger whore role, which might have suited her more.

The Tyrion Ros interaction in season one was 3 minutes not more, they hadn't chemestry but I also believe that the Shae/Tyrion thing in this season is strange, but it could be going to be better in season 3 with a Sansa Tyrion Shae triangel

#55 Somnus

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:13 PM

I think Tyrion had more chemistry with Ros in season 1 than he ever has with Shae.

Ros's interactions with Tyrion in season 1 were much closer to how book Shae treats Tyrion than TV Shae has ever been. Perhaps the actresses should have switched roles.

They could have even had Shae introduced in episode 1 the same as Ros was, with her turnip cart ride from Winterfell ending up in Tyrion's camp rather than King's Landing, leaving her in Tyrion's tent again. Then have the actress playing Shae take over the high dollar littlefinger whore role, which might have suited her more.


I agree with this.

The actress that plays Ros does it very well, it's a shame though that her character is wasted on sexposition. But I guess that from here she'll be used by House Lannister and given to Ramsay Bolton as Sansa Stark (She knows the people of Winterfell, she's red-haired and it would have more impact on the dynamic between Theon and "Arya" (or in this case Sansa)) and hopefully becoming useful.

I'm okay with deviations from the books when they make sense or change for the better like Dany having her dragons stolen or this change of Alayaya for Ros (I had completely forgotten about the necklace). Catelyn releasing Jamies without knowing that Bran and Rickon are "dead" on the other hand...

The actress Shae on the other hand....she's so stiff and emotionless..ugh when she betrays Tyrion the TV-Viewers will all have seen it coming a mile away.

Edited by Somnus, 21 May 2012 - 03:15 PM.


#56 Pellaeon

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:17 PM

But I guess that from here she'll be used by House Lannister and given to Ramsay Bolton as Sansa Stark (She knows the people of Winterfell, she's red-haired and it would have more impact on the dynamic between Theon and "Arya" (or in this case Sansa)) and hopefully becoming useful. I'm okay with deviations from the books when they make sense or change for the better like Dany having her dragons stolen or this change of Alayaya for Ros (I had completely forgotten about the necklace). Catelyn releasing Jamies without knowing that Bran and Rickon are "dead" on the other hand... The actress Shae on the other hand....she's so stiff and emotionless..ugh when she betrays Tyrion the TV-Viewers will all have seen it coming a mile away.

No way she is much to old pretending to be Arya or Sansa, it's more likely they left this part out

#57 Somnus

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:20 PM

No way she is much to old pretending to be Arya or Sansa, it's more likely they left this part out


Well, Jeyne Poole was also too old to play Arya, and all the lord bought it.

Besides just the excuse of Sansa hitting puberty is enough to fool lords that never met/don't remember her.

Edited by Somnus, 21 May 2012 - 03:22 PM.


#58 Prince of Dragonstone

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:26 PM

I don't think they would have briefly introduced Jeyne Poole in season one if they weren't planning her rouse as Arya in upcoming seasons. Plus I don't think Ros' vivacious character would fit well into Jeyne's role as the scared and meek victim.

But then again Talisa is very different from Jeyne Westerling so you never know.

#59 Tadco26

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:27 PM

The Tyrion Ros interaction in season one was 3 minutes not more, they hadn't chemestry but I also believe that the Shae/Tyrion thing in this season is strange, but it could be going to be better in season 3 with a Sansa Tyrion Shae triangel


Yes but she still had better chemistry and more affection in those 3 minutes than TV Shae has in all her time with Tyrion, plus we got the conversation with Theon and Ros where Ros implies that she enjoyed Tyrion's company. Shae hasn't ever really implied that she enjoys Tyrion's company that I can recall, and even questioned why anyone would in season 1.

#60 K.C.

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 03:35 PM

I agree, its very lazy writing at best. At worst her spies just completely feed her bullshit info, at best, Varys owns her spies and has them feeding bad info, but none of that is even hinted at well enough to the casual viewer. My wife had no clue where any of that came from.


It's been obvious for a while that Ros would play Chataya/Alayaya's roles at some point. But the fact that Shae is playing Sansa's maid this early is where the logic starts to break down.

In the books, even sweet innocent Sansa knows all her maids are Cersei's spies. So when TV Shae tries to cow Sansa's maid into not telling the queen about Sansa's flowering, I was certain Cersei had found Tyrion's real whore.

Add to that what others have said and the whole thing just felt too contrived.