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[Book Spoilers] Talissa/Jeyne


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112 replies to this topic

#101 SerMixalot

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

roose looks at everyone like they are an insect, god love him

you have to remember that his plot has already been set in motion by ordering ramsey to take WF so his recen interactions with Talisa are not causes

#102 zuziako

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 05:17 AM

Talissa is so annoying. When me and my brother watched her talk about her past, the only thing we could say was "Goosh, who cares, get out" and later "No Rob! Don't! You'll end up with a wolf head instead of yours!"

Also, she walks in and Robb stops talking to his adviser about war. WTH?

#103 Lady Lilac

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 06:38 AM

The romance between her and Robb is annoying and cheesy, but I can sort of see why they would change it like this, given that it's tv and not a book. However, one thing that just pisses me off about her is that they treat her character completely unrealistic. She's a common nurse, no family name, no nothing, yet she waltzes into Robb's tent whenever she wants and Roose Bolton stands up and leaves in the middle of a council just to leave her with Robb? That's something I definitely can't see Roose doing.

#104 Alasdair

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

Ok this has been said in portions by others but I will compile my theory here and try and set some things straight. Firstly Jeyne has a grandmother from Essos (is highly hinted to be Maggy the witch Cersei saw), in the show, Jeyne uses a similar back story, this shows she could be lying as it is not proper for a young "lady" to be out as a medic so she is disguised. Some have said she looks to foreign and to hot to be Jeyne, its the show, they changed many character's appearances to be more realistic/practical so and she has Essos blood so this point is moot. She is more sassy because its TV and strong female roles get more views (well that's my opinion). Ok now onto her being hesitant to go to the Crag, maybe that's because she bloody lives there and doesn't want mummy, daddy and maester to know she is out frolicking and being a medic. Some say she can't be Jeyne because they came back and it wasn't brought up by Robb, but who cares, this is a minor detail and could have been offscreen. Now to them shagging, its is easy to explain this as artistic licences because it was all off screen Robb deflowering the young Westerling girl in the books, but in the show they like strong female leads and they like a bit of cheese so this works, plus I don't thing Oona would be very good at playing a weepy girl. Now I have put forward a few points that show she could go either way, that these could indeed all be hints and that she is a replacement or that she has been set up for a great reveal (they screw for love, well big woop, Robb can still marry her to remove her shame). Now onto the implications if she isn't Jeyne. Firstly it screws the Red Wedding (RW) because all of the minor westerling characters will not be there, the Lannisters will be under-involved and generally it would not resemble the complex mess that it was in the books (that we all loved). Now, many single-readers will probably have glossed over all those scenes in Riverrun where Jeyne isn't an important character on her own but is the catalyst for conversations that give us a lot of background into plots etc. e.g her mum feeding her contraceptives and the link to the Lannisters. As well as everything I have mentioned before, if she isn't Jeyne, many of these seens I mentioned in the last sentence will not happen, and it just removes a portion of the story that I personally enjoyed and believed to be important.

Anyway, rant off and to summarize if you are just scanning these relatively dead forums, I think she is Jeyne, I think they have not made a complete overhall, but just lots of small artistic changes to fit the mood and character of the show better and to fit all that crap into 10 1 hour episodes. So to me, she is Jeyne till explicitly stated otherwise in-show.

Lastly I know it barely matters but I will be very sad if they have removed her, as a lover of the books, this is the kind of betrayal that has knock on effects (may I mention Eragon as a strong example of this).

#105 Lannister Hamster

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:21 AM

Ok this has been said in portions by others but I will compile my theory here and try and set some things straight. Firstly Jeyne has a grandmother from Essos (is highly hinted to be Maggy the witch Cersei saw), in the show, Jeyne uses a similar back story, this shows she could be lying as it is not proper for a young "lady" to be out as a medic so she is disguised. Some have said she looks to foreign and to hot to be Jeyne, its the show, they changed many character's appearances to be more realistic/practical so and she has Essos blood so this point is moot. She is more sassy because its TV and strong female roles get more views (well that's my opinion). Ok now onto her being hesitant to go to the Crag, maybe that's because she bloody lives there and doesn't want mummy, daddy and maester to know she is out frolicking and being a medic. Some say she can't be Jeyne because they came back and it wasn't brought up by Robb, but who cares, this is a minor detail and could have been offscreen. Now to them shagging, its is easy to explain this as artistic licences because it was all off screen Robb deflowering the young Westerling girl in the books, but in the show they like strong female leads and they like a bit of cheese so this works, plus I don't thing Oona would be very good at playing a weepy girl. Now I have put forward a few points that show she could go either way, that these could indeed all be hints and that she is a replacement or that she has been set up for a great reveal (they screw for love, well big woop, Robb can still marry her to remove her shame). Now onto the implications if she isn't Jeyne. Firstly it screws the Red Wedding (RW) because all of the minor westerling characters will not be there, the Lannisters will be under-involved and generally it would not resemble the complex mess that it was in the books (that we all loved). Now, many single-readers will probably have glossed over all those scenes in Riverrun where Jeyne isn't an important character on her own but is the catalyst for conversations that give us a lot of background into plots etc. e.g her mum feeding her contraceptives and the link to the Lannisters. As well as everything I have mentioned before, if she isn't Jeyne, many of these seens I mentioned in the last sentence will not happen, and it just removes a portion of the story that I personally enjoyed and believed to be important.

Anyway, rant off and to summarize if you are just scanning these relatively dead forums, I think she is Jeyne, I think they have not made a complete overhall, but just lots of small artistic changes to fit the mood and character of the show better and to fit all that crap into 10 1 hour episodes. So to me, she is Jeyne till explicitly stated otherwise in-show.

Lastly I know it barely matters but I will be very sad if they have removed her, as a lover of the books, this is the kind of betrayal that has knock on effects (may I mention Eragon as a strong example of this).


I think you're in denial

#106 Ran

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:41 AM

She's Talisa. Not Jeyne. They have said as much. She is not from the Westerlands, she does not reside in the Crag, she does not know the Westerlings -- she's exactly who she says she is on the show.

#107 Alasdair

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:43 PM

I think you're in denial


Most definitely and thanks for clearing that up Ran. I think I will just do my final search for citation and then move on (maybe have a wee cry), just annoys me as I was fond of her, she was like my favorite semi-useless background character for what her existence did to the story.

#108 Lannister Hamster

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:00 AM

Most definitely and thanks for clearing that up Ran. I think I will just do my final search for citation and then move on (maybe have a wee cry), just annoys me as I was fond of her, she was like my favorite semi-useless background character for what her existence did to the story.


She's still a background character in your story. GRRM's ASOIAF is the story and a GoT TV series is just an adaptation. Jeyne is still there where she is meant to be in the original text.

#109 Alasdair

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:03 AM

She's still a background character in your story. GRRM's ASOIAF is the story and a GoT TV series is just an adaptation. Jeyne is still there where she is meant to be in the original text.


You seem to have missed the point, if she has been replaced then she ceases to be the same CHARACTER, especially if her influences and acts are done by another CHARACTER in the show. You previously stated I am in denial, well you are damn right I am, it is something that for me stopped season two being my favorite season of all TV shows in existence (and I am a big fanboy of ASOIAF so thats saying something). What they did with Oona Chaplin's character was unnecessary unless she is like Ros in the show and is an added character and that Jeyne appears later, but this is much less likely as they would have cast another young woman to be her and we would have all noticed, so either they have removed the CHARACTER and replaced her with Talisa or whatever, or they will throw us a lovely curve-ball and fix what to me, is a mess, and a useless one at that. Seeing as I am not really into calling people liars this means they have indeed replaced the CHARACTER and as such, your second response to me is false, there may be a made up person named Jeyne Westerling in the show aswell, but she is not the same character. So as I just said, I believe you that Talisa is not Jeyne (though it chaffes me and I am still looking for the citation) but it doesn't have to sit well with me just because I said I liked Jeyne as a background, off scene character and she still may be that in the show, my point is that she isn't the same, so I am allowed to be uneasy with it if I think the change was not warranted.

#110 Alasdair

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:05 AM

P.S. I am not trying to get into an arguement mate, just pointing out that my opinion stands that it was a bad choice and that Talisa being the replacement annoys me, I just may have been a bit sharp (probably due to it being 10 am and I have yet to sleep). /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

... Also this doesn't mean I don't like Oona Chaplin either, she is great and I find it funny how she has gone so quickly from an extra in Quantum of Solace to a star of HBO's biggest spring show.

Edited by Alasdair, 17 December 2012 - 05:06 AM.


#111 Lannister Hamster

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:35 AM

You seem to have missed the point, if she has been replaced then she ceases to be the same CHARACTER, especially if her influences and acts are done by another CHARACTER in the show. You previously stated I am in denial, well you are damn right I am, it is something that for me stopped season two being my favorite season of all TV shows in existence (and I am a big fanboy of ASOIAF so thats saying something). What they did with Oona Chaplin's character was unnecessary unless she is like Ros in the show and is an added character and that Jeyne appears later, but this is much less likely as they would have cast another young woman to be her and we would have all noticed, so either they have removed the CHARACTER and replaced her with Talisa or whatever, or they will throw us a lovely curve-ball and fix what to me, is a mess, and a useless one at that. Seeing as I am not really into calling people liars this means they have indeed replaced the CHARACTER and as such, your second response to me is false, there may be a made up person named Jeyne Westerling in the show aswell, but she is not the same character. So as I just said, I believe you that Talisa is not Jeyne (though it chaffes me and I am still looking for the citation) but it doesn't have to sit well with me just because I said I liked Jeyne as a background, off scene character and she still may be that in the show, my point is that she isn't the same, so I am allowed to be uneasy with it if I think the change was not warranted.


I personally don't care about the change, but I can understand people getting annoyed that their favourite characters don't make it to tv. Personally I think that the change makes Robb as a character much more interesting than in the book. His falling in love with Tulisa is a different test/situation than the way that he decided to marry Jeyne Westerling. If you buy into the whole love potion plot then I can understand that you are upset but equally there is no way they could have interserted that thread into the saga as skillfully as GRRM did, that would ruin things more for me personally than replacing Jeyne with Tulisa.

#112 Nezzer

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:56 AM

I'm starting to think she won't die at the RW. They could have easily cut the Blackfish from the show as he wouldn't have a big role if Talisa died. I think both of them will be at the RW, but the Blackfish will somehow manage to escape the Twins with Talisa. If she does die, the Blackfish won't be a very useful addition to the cast as he probably wouldn't do anything important, and D&D don't use to keep useless characters in the show.

#113 Lannister Hamster

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:21 AM

I'm starting to think she won't die at the RW. They could have easily cut the Blackfish from the show as he wouldn't have a big role if Talisa died. I think both of them will be at the RW, but the Blackfish will somehow manage to escape the Twins with Talisa. If she does die, the Blackfish won't be a very useful addition to the cast as he probably wouldn't do anything important, and D&D don't use to keep useless characters in the show.


I think they are going to use Tulisa instead of the Fake Arya plot line (there's another thread on this in detail but in short have Ramsey's claim solidified by marrying Robb's widow rather than Arya) and so she'll survive the wedding.

They have cast the Blackfish so we'll have to see how that goes - but I guess it means he has some part in the saga's eventual endgame.