346 replies to this topic

[The Killer Snark]

I don't know if this will be any use to you, but it's appended to the back of the current UK paperback of ADwD Part 2.

Edited by Iain Robb, 23 January 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[bemused]

Link posted here ..

http://asoiaf.wester...o-find-theon-i/

[locke and key]

I'm interested in jeyne poole's fate

if jon were still alive, then when she got to the wall all that would happen ins jon figuring out she's not arya and that causing problems for the lannister tyrells and boltons as theyd be found lying.

but now he's gone who knows

am also interested in justin masseys mission it seems a bit strange for grrm to introduce such a decision as a throwaway line seeing as stannis will likely die soon

[aryagonnakill]

locke and key, on 26 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

I'm interested in jeyne poole's fate

if jon were still alive, then when she got to the wall all that would happen ins jon figuring out she's not arya and that causing problems for the lannister tyrells and boltons as theyd be found lying.

but now he's gone who knows

am also interested in justin masseys mission it seems a bit strange for grrm to introduce such a decision as a throwaway line seeing as stannis will likely die soon

A lot of people including myself would disagree that he will die soon, I believe Stannis will put a few things back the way they should be and have things going his way when he dies, or end his tale on the wall.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

locke and key, on 26 January 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

I'm interested in jeyne poole's fate

if jon were still alive, then when she got to the wall all that would happen ins jon figuring out she's not arya

Jeyne is still a scared little girl. What said she doesn't confine in Ms. Mormont on the way to the wall? Davos if he successfully rescues Rickon and Shagydog could throw a wrench into the plans of everyone. Skaggos is close to the wall so it would make sense for him to go there as well.

Even if (gasp) Jon is not around to identify Jeyne, Rickon will be.

I wonder if Stannis will ask Theon how he captured Winterfell with only twenty men.

[DrownedSnow]

Patchface is the drowned god.

Jar-Jar knew he was giving us this chapter to chew on and put in some false flags.

Edited by DrownedSnow, 10 February 2013 - 12:49 AM.

[The Killer Snark]

Theon is not gonna die. I used to believe this, but he is being led up to becoming King of Pyke.

[Nelapsi]

The Killer Snark, on 10 February 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Theon is not gonna die. I used to believe this, but he is being led up to becoming King of Pyke.

I don't know about him becoming king of the Iron Islands, it might depend on his 'male parts', you know. Can he become king - and be recognized as such by his own people? And how is he supposed to have an heir?

I agree he's not going to die soon. He welcomes death too eagerly for GRRM to be that merciful

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I was thinking about the subject of Theon's death and the possibility of Asha using him for the kingsmoot. I always believed that not telling Stannis about the Kingsmoot was a sign the Asha didn't believe that Theon could be used in his state. I know that there can be other reasons that she didn't tell him. However, I also realized that Asha had another very easy way of keeping Theon alive. She could have easily pointed out that there was still the Glover hostages at Harlow and that killing Theon would result in the hostages getting killed. This omission to Stannis makes me believe that Asha doesn't believe he can be King and that she believes that getting in good with the North is her best option. As she, herself though, "Nobody deserts the winning side." Asha saw how well the Northmen fared in the autumn compared to Stannis's men. If she believes they are going to win and possibly win without Stannis, she isn't going to provoke their anger, but rather try to get on their good side as much as possible. Letting Theon die the Northern way at her suggestion (especially since Stannis is honest enough to give her credit) is aprobably the best way to improve her status in the North and ensure her own survival.

[Nic.]

Faint, on 03 June 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

I think the more likely scenario is that the men with Stannis simply put on Frey clothing and pull off a Trojan Horse maneuver in order to gain access to the castle.

I realize this is a popular theory but I have a hard time believing that not a single Frey out of the two thousand sent would have survived to tell Roose what took place.

[Faint]

Nic., on 14 February 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

I realize this is a popular theory but I have a hard time believing that not a single Frey out of the two thousand sent would have survived to tell Roose what took place.

Honestly, in regular circumstances you might have a point but they are in the middle of a blizzard. It really doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to make that work. It's already been established how hard it is to travel a mile in current conditions.

[Nic.]

Faint, on 14 February 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Honestly, in regular circumstances you might have a point but they are in the middle of a blizzard. It really doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to make that work. It's already been established how hard it is to travel a mile in current conditions.

ok but even then, knowing that Roose is the smartest lord (seemingly anyways since he's been hyped as such), are we to believe he'd fall for that trap?

[Faint]

Nic., on 14 February 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

ok but even then, knowing that Roose is the smartest lord (seemingly anyways since he's been hyped as such), are we to believe he'd fall for that trap?

It wouldn't actually be him. Ramsay is the one that went out of the castle, not Roose.

[Ser Cornholio of Titikaka!]

Roose is sending Ramsey to his death. Probably to be rid of him.

[HannibalStark]

Faint, on 11 June 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

One thing my theory doesn't account for is how Theon and/or Asha will fit into the battle sequence (and one of them will have to, since they are the only POVs there).

I'm quite sure Theon is fated to survive in the short term but I don't quite know how. I'm also a firm believer that Theon and Asha taking back the Seastone Chair is going to be a developing storyline (far too much groundwork has been laid to abandon it now).

So I'm working under those two assumptions.

I do think Theon's "king blood" will be fed to the weirwood on the islet in the village where Stannis is, via beheading

[HannibalStark]

The Great Unwashed, on 15 June 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Varys states at one point that he was cut "root and stem", which to me indicates that he has nothing at all between the legs.  I don't know if Theon was cut in the same manner, but it is clearly implied during Jeyne's bedding when Ramsey tells Theon to get her ready that he is no longer able to function as a man in that manner.  He also makes several other sideways references to it throughout his chapters.

I get what you're saying, but I think that Theon's redemption, if he manages to escape execution at the hands of either Stannis or the northmen, or return to the tender mercies of Ramsey, lies down a different path.  Not to mention that before Ramsey captured Theon, Theon was pretty much a joke among the other ironborn.  Things might have been different if he had been able to hold Winterfell, but short of an outright miracle, I don't see Theon changing that perception of him among the ironborn.

I think Theon's head will be chopped by the weirwood where Stannis is now, but I also think him not having been at the 1st Kingsmoot will also give Asha a chance in some way to have another one called....(easy out-maybe the iron born will have a new Kingsmoot when Asha brings Theon's head back and puts it on a pole in the ground? IDK)

[Razha]

HannibalStark, on 19 February 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I do think Theon's "king blood" will be fed to the weirwood on the islet in the village where Stannis is, via beheading

This is quite possible, though I don't think bringing someones chopped head will be enough to declare Kingsmot invalid.  I am leaning to possibility of him surviving that weirwood island.

In addition to all the reasoning for this that were already mentioned here, I would also add that it is unlikely also based on the place of this event in the structure of the book. To put it simple:
Given the developments at the end of ADWD it is obvious that events in Theon I chapter take place pretty early in TWOW. So the "sacrifice" has to happen really soon afterwards.  I dunno, for such a character, with such a detailed story arch in the previous book... to be killed off right in the biginning of TWOW, without much build-up, etc.. seems kind of anticlimatic to me.

+ at the time of Jon's last chapter in ADWD Bolton/Stannis battle seems to be over, and Ramsey (or whoever wrote the letter) is still looking for his Reek.

Edited by Razha, 19 February 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[HannibalStark]

Razha, on 19 February 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

This is quite possible, though I don't think bringing someones chopped head will be enough to declare Kingsmot invalid.  I am leaning to possibility of him surviving that weirwood island.

In addition to all the reasoning for this that were already mentioned here, I would also add that it is unlikely also based on the place of this event in the structure of the book. To put it simple:
Given the developments at the end of ADWD it is obvious that events in Theon I chapter take place pretty early in TWOW. So the "sacrifice" has to happen really soon afterwards.  I dunno, for such a character, with such a detailed story arch in the previous book... to be killed off right in the biginning of TWOW, without much build-up, etc.. seems kind of anticlimatic to me.

+ at the time of Jon's last chapter in ADWD Bolton/Stannis battle seems to be over, and Ramsey (or whoever wrote the letter) is still looking for his Reek.

I was joking about Asha bringing Theon's head....just saying that would be an easy out is all...but no, I also do not really think plopping his head on a stake would be enough either.

I do think Theon has two more parts to play  1) he can invalidate the 1st Kingsmoot   2) he can pay the Starks for his treachery back in blood if he is beheaded in front of a weirwood tree (considering the unknown status of Jon  IDK) Maybe he will do both, or maybe just one, or none?

plus we don't know where the Theon chapter will actually be in tWOW or where exactly it is in time compared to Jon's last chapter.

Edited by HannibalStark, 19 February 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[HannibalStark]

The Great Unwashed, on 18 June 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

To my mind, the definitive statement(s) on the issue are the several times it is remarked upon that Theon smells like urine.  Now, it could be because he sleeps with Ramsey's bitches, but it is even remarked upon after Theon is cleaned up for Jeyne's wedding.  I honestly couldn't tell you how difficult it would be for a man to control his bladder without a cock, but I can imagine it wouldn't help matters.  In addition, that recalls to mind the fact that Lord Varys is always perfumed...he could be trying to cover up the smell of urine.

what a drip

[Montey14]

The Great Unwashed, on 01 June 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

If this plays out like I think it will, we'll get to see Stannis in full tactical mode.

Here's how I see it playing out (and I'm sorry, but I didn't read through all 1600+ posts so apologies if I plagarize someone).

Stannis knows that approximately half of Bolton's force is on their way to him, with the other half holed up in Winterfell.  He's uncovered Karstark's betrayal and has the two ravens that are trained to fly to Winterfell.  He smashes the Freys, most likely with the help of Manderley's forces, and sends word by raven of victory and conspires with Manderley for Manderley to return with "proof" of Stannis' death, which perhaps explains the "7 days of battle" in the letter.  In addition to proof, Manderly also returns with word that Arya Stark and Reek had been sent on to the Wall for protection.  This is when Ramsay sends the letter to Castle Black.  Most likely Manderley's forces will have been "decimated" (while in reality most of them joined Stannis' forces) so the Boltons know they will have to march on the Wall to get back Arya/Jeyne, since she's their only legitimate claim to Winterfell and there is no chance the Lord Commander will return her to them.

Meanwhile, Stannis' and Manderley's forces march up the Kingsroad to Winterfell and take the now lightly guarded castle, trapping Bolton's forces between Winterfell and the Wall.

I think the key piece of evidence is that Ramsay asks for Reek.  If Stannis truly had been defeated, then Ramsay would have had Theon, since Stannis certainly wasn't going to release him, or at the least, Ramsay would have found out that Theon had been executed.  The Boltons and Freys are about to receive their comeuppance.

Ramsay would just htink that he sent a very high value hostage to the wall with Aria...although I like the way you play out Stannis' plan...I htink Theons whereabouts are inconsequential .....