[BOOK SPOILERS] Small differences beteween books and show that radically alter a character.

[Ser Loudmouth]

Hello!

Here I want to open a thread about apparently small changesto a character's storyline that have the potential to radically alter our perception of him/her.

Here are some exemples.

-Stannis not humiliating Cressen before his death.:

I say this as a fan of Stannis: I was greatly angered by that scene in the prologue when he publicly humiliates Maester Cressen. He had been built up as this perfectly just man, and in his first appearance he acts in a petty and unfair manner. I still like Stannis, but that scene reminded me that nobody is perfect. Do you think that show Stannis might be more likeable than book Stannis because of this omission?

-Sansa trusting Shae:

In the books Sansa gradually starts to become more shrewd and less naive as her story progresses. In the show there is still no hint of this. When she met Shae, who is obviously not a maid, her first suspicion should have been that Shae was sent to spy on her. Yet she still acts very trusting. She is still extremely naive. So when she inevitably starts acting more inteligent and mature, since the plot demands it, it will come as a surprise to the viewer, whereas in the books there are hints as early as book 2 that Sansa is not completely dim.

-Catelyn freeing Jaime early:

We can all agree that Catelyn freeing Jaime was a mistake. Even I, who generally like Catelyn, thought it was a mistake. But at least she had an excuse fo being overcome by grief after she heard her younger boys are dead. In the show she has no excuse, so her actions are much more outrageous. It's like the producers saw that show Catelyn is more liked than book Catelyn and decided to make up for it.

-Jeor Mormont trusting Craster:

This is a big thing, if you think about it. The show, unlike the books, implies that Jeor knows about Craster's dealings with the Others, and might even have seen them. In the books, there is no hint of this. He just knows that Craster abandons his boys, but doesn't know any other details. The show makes Jeor look stupid. Why is he trusting a known double agent? And he is allso neglecting his duty. The Watch's primary mission since its founding is to fight the Others. If it is known that Craster collaborates with the Others, then he should be taken out.

-Arya not killing the Bolton guard:

I'm not sure myself if this counts as a "small" change, but the implications are huge. In the books, Arya killing the Bolton soldier at Harrenhall was a very important character defining moment. It was her definitive "loss of innocence" moment. She killed a man that was still theoretically on her side (even if he didn't know it). She had every interest to kill that man, but she had no right to do it. By killing a man simply for standing in her way, she showed a ruthlessness and lack of scruples most unlike any other Stark. That is why I think it was a crucial character defining moment, and I don't see the show could put in it's place.

I could give some exemples from season 1 too, but let's restrict the discussion to season 2 for now.

[Independent George]

I would add Myrcella crying at her departure from King's Landing. It's a small change, perhaps not important on the show, but it was such a crucial detail in the books. Of the three "Baratheon" children, Myrcella is by far the best suited to rule - wiser than Joffrey, and stronger than Tommen. Tyrion makes special mention of the fact that she was a true princess who understood her duty, and was duly impressed.

[7V3N]

Not mentioning the name R'hllor, and instead only saying the Lord of Light. R'hllor is unique, shorter than saying "The Lord of Light" every time, and is accepted by maybe 10% of Westeros (by TWoW) and a majority of the East as the only true god.

R'hllor would just bring a bit of uniqueness to the religion, because it is a unique name. If we think R'hllor, it is hard to bring in our predispositions since it is so foreign. But the Lord of Light is something we can try to picture/imagine. It is hard to put this idea into words, but does anyone get what I am saying?

[Frumpus]

I would add Myrcella crying at her departure from King's Landing. It's a small change, perhaps not important on the show, but it was such a crucial detail in the books. Of the three "Baratheon" children, Myrcella is by far the best suited to rule - wiser than Joffrey, and stronger than Tommen. Tyrion makes special mention of the fact that she was a true princess who understood her duty, and was duly impressed.

Probably irrelevant, seeing as that Myrcella will likely die anyway. It might change her character but it won't change the plot.

[protar]

Probably irrelevant, seeing as that Myrcella will likely die anyway. It might change her character but it won't change the plot.

But this thread is about changes to the characters. So it's not irrelevant to this thread. Or to the show for that matter, I was dissapointed it was left out. Just one of the many hints that D+D don't care about the series.

[Independent George]

But this thread is about changes to the characters. So it's not irrelevant to this thread. Or to the show for that matter, I was dissapointed it was left out. Just one of the many hints that D+D don't care about the series.

I wouldn't go that far. I think it's more a matter of favoring external TV drama versus a novel's internal characterization - something that I'm generally in favor of. Myrcella showing that kind of emotion makes for a more emotional scene on television, but it subtly changes the nature of her character and the trajectory of her arc.

I understand why they did it - it's better to get an immediate payoff than to hold it in reserve for a fifth season we may never have. Nevertheless, I can't help but mourn the change.

[Greywolf2375]

I would add Myrcella crying at her departure from King's Landing. It's a small change, perhaps not important on the show, but it was such a crucial detail in the books. Of the three "Baratheon" children, Myrcella is by far the best suited to rule - wiser than Joffrey, and stronger than Tommen. Tyrion makes special mention of the fact that she was a true princess who understood her duty, and was duly impressed.

Yep - this is a big one I believe. That moment in the books changed her from a little girl to a Princess.

Jon not seeing Dalbridge volunteer to stay behind and give his brothers a better chance to escape is another - I thought that was a great counter to Jons's running from the NW earlier to his brothers because they were blood.

[HenrikLannister]

The words "...in your opinion" seriously need to be added to the thread title here. You guys are way too obsessed. It's not endearing

[Aegnor]

Don't really agree with most of these. I don't think Myrcella crying is a significant change in any way. She is a tertiary character in any case, and this certainly doesn't irrevocably change her character. They can easily show her maturity later, in another manner.

It isn't clear in the TV series that Jeor knows it's Whitewalkers. Jon just says he say "something".

Arya killing the guard in the books is a major turning point for her character, and I hated to see it not included, but they can easily show this with a similar action later.

Sansa still shows some naivety in the books, by trusting Dontos. And she has shown flashes of savy. I don't see this as significant.

The one I agree with is Cat releasing Jamie early. I think this irrevocably alters her character, and not in a good way. I'll get over it though.

[johhny-turbo]

It's from season 1 but wasn't Joffrey crying while Robert was at his death bed?

[Ser Loudmouth]

It isn't clear in the TV series that Jeor knows it's Whitewalkers. Jon just says he say "something".

Jeor is very quick to cut Jon off when he tries to say what he saw. I took this to mean that he knows what Jon saw and doesn't want to talk about this.

Sansa still shows some naivety in the books, by trusting Dontos.

Ironically, she was right to trust Dontos after all, since he does help her escape. (even if for the wrong reasons)

But she does suspect a trap at first, doesn't she? I can't remember that part very well right now.

[Aegnor]

It's from season 1 but wasn't Joffrey crying while Robert was at his death bed?

Yeah, he wasn't there in that scene in the book. Having him cry in that scene totally changed his character. In the TV series he comes across as a pretty good kid, not the evil bastard he is in the books. Oh wait...

[Aegnor]

Jeor is very quick to cut Jon off when he tries to say what he saw. I took this to mean that he knows what Jon saw and doesn't want to talk about this.

Yeah, it is a little ambiguous, which I don't like, but I just choose to interpret it as him not realizing.

Ironically, she was right to trust Dontos after all, since he does help her escape. (even if for the wrong reasons) But she does suspect a trap at first, doesn't she? I can't remember that part very well right now.

She doesn't really suspect a trap, she just doesn't think the drunkard Dontos is capable of rescuing her. And she wasn't right to trust him exactly. She told Dontos about the Tyrell plan to send her to Highgarden to marry Whatshisface Tyrell, and he told Littlefinger, who told Cercei.

[johhny-turbo]

Yeah, he wasn't there in that scene in the book. Having him cry in that scene totally changed his character. In the TV series he comes across as a pretty good kid, not the evil bastard he is in the books. Oh wait...

I feel like the TV series ramped up the obvious daddy issues he has. So he goes from (at least from Sansa's POV since that's where we're viewing it from mostly) a character who just seems to have evil hardware to actually giving a real explanation as to his psychological makeup.

Yeah the book does show his daddy issues with stuff like him trying to kill Bran to seem impressive but the show seems like it really made it more clear what with his crying, the way he reacted towards the bard that made fun of Robert and the way he said "you let my father die" when they forced Selmy to retire.

It's like how people have said the way Harry Lloyd delivered the "I just want what was promised to me" line changed the way Viserys came across. They're still evil but you get a better understanding as to what motivates them.

[HenrikLannister]

To the above about Sansa, I remember in A Clash of Kings that between getting the note "Come to the Godswood tonight..." and her first meeting there with Ser Dontos, she does entertain the possibility that it's a trap or ruse of some kind to see how loyal she really is to Joffrey.

[cancerman]

I agree with you about Sansa and I don't even like the character but I can say that she does mature a bit though I think there is still room for that because I've found her growth in the books was slight until she leaves with LF.

[kkae]

Older Margaery.

Tommen betrothed to a girl twice his age was weird in the books. Now it seems almost implausible to happen in a believable way.

[Jolene Brown]

Older Margaery.

Tommen betrothed to a girl twice his age was weird in the books. Now it seems almost implausible to happen in a believable way.

I know it's borrowing trouble to some extent, but i am very very anxious about this. Margaery's marriage to Tommen is the foundation of the continuing Tyrell/Lannister alliance and important to Cercei's characterization because it is the 2nd major catalyst (with joffrey's death) to her just totally losing it. If they change this, it would be really problematic, but I just am really having a hard time picturing them airing a wedding between a 30 year old and a child.

[DurararaFTW]

Ser Dontos was in fact notr worthy of her trust, but he's still only alive because of Sansa, it is not on par with just confiding in any bedmaiden assigned to her. The scene with Shae nbeed to explain rto her she can't trust anyone undermines every scene she had up till then, where she was capable of understanding that she needed to keep a mask on at all times. But lesson learned, it's behind us.

I'm more worried about Tyrion's appearance, Sansa can't be as disgusted with him as she was in the books, especially not if they're not taking his nose away, they'll have to change it.

I feel like the TV series ramped up the obvious daddy issues he has. So he goes from (at least from Sansa's POV since that's where we're viewing it from mostly) a character who just seems to have evil hardware to actually giving a real explanation as to his psychological makeup.

Yeah the book does show his daddy issues with stuff like him trying to kill Bran to seem impressive but the show seems like it really made it more clear what with his crying, the way he reacted towards the bard that made fun of Robert and the way he said "you let my father die" when they forced Selmy to retire.

In the books Joffrey tells Tywin that Robert was the real hero of the Rebellion and Tywin ended up lamenting that he didn't win a war to install Robert the Second on the throne. I dont have a problem with them taking Joffrey views of his fathe er to the foefront. Though having him give the order of executing his bastards may have been too much of good thing.

[Ser Loudmouth]

Older Margaery. Tommen betrothed to a girl twice his age was weird in the books. Now it seems almost implausible to happen in a believable way.

- In the books, even weirder things happen. Remember one of the younger lannisters is married to a baby girl.

- The books made it very clear that tommen and Margarey don't consummate the marriage, and the show could make it equally clear.

- Tommen was aged in the show just like everyone else, so the age difference is still the same.

I'm more worried about Tyrion's appearance, Sansa can't be as disgusted with him as she was in the books, especially not if they're not taking his nose away, they'll have to change it.

We'll see in a few days if they take his nose away or not. Besides, smart or not, Sansa is very picky when it comes to men, so I think it's believable she would reject even Peter Dinklage if he isn't a knight in shining armour.

Though having him give the order of executing his bastards may have been too much of good thing.

I had forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me.

In the books, It's Cersei who gives the order, and it's not even the first time she has a bastard killed. It seems Cersei is another character who is made more simpathetic in the books (between this and her extra scenes in S1). I wonder how they will handle her story arc from book 4.