174 replies to this topic

[Planetary]

According to this story, it's pirated more than 3 million times an episode:

http://torrentfreak....and-why-120520/

First-run (9 p.m. only) Sunday night ratings have been in the neighborhood of 3.9 million. If you add the 3 million pirates to the paying subscribers who view on Sunday at 9 p.m., that means 42 percent of the total audience watching Game of Thrones is not paying for the show. What kind of business takes a 42 percent hit and still operates?

HBO can take some steps to limit the piracy. In Australi, people pirate the episodes because they get them a week later than we do. They're not going to wait, just like a lot of Americans didn't wait when S2E2 leaked a week early after it went live on the Dutch HBO Go. HBO can ink some new deals if necessary and make sure it airs in Australia on the same day it airs in the U.S. That should put at least a dent in the downloads.

It's the rest of the piracy I'm worried about, and I think the concern is legitimate given what we saw with Rome, another amazing but wildly expensive HBO drama. Rome was even more expensive than GoT at an estimated $100 to $110 million for the first season alone, but HBO split the cost with the BBC. Most of the reports out there about GoT's season two production costs put things in the neighborhood of $70 million. and it's entirely financed by HBO.

Here's a great Slate article talking about the economics of premium cable, and how HBO recoups some of the production costs:

"HBO also has complete control over decisions about syndication and DVDs. Not only does it bank the proceeds from DVD sales—Season 1 of Game of Thrones sold about 350,000 copies in the first week it was available—it can also time the release date to maximize subscriptions. For example, the first season of Boardwalk Empire wasn’t released on DVD until after Season 2 had concluded; until then, the only way to catch up was to call your cable provider."

Still, I'm concerned. Not about next season, or even the season after that. But there may come a point when the production costs outweigh the returns because so many people are stealing the show. Are these people -- especially in the U.S., the U.K. and most of Europe -- that hard up that they can't put up the $15 a month to watch the show, at least for the three months covering the season? The economy's not great, and some people are certainly struggling, but most people spend more than that on lunch, on subscriptions to MMOs, on a quarter tank of gas, or a few cans of Red Bull a week. In many markets, the subscription only runs $10 even with on-demand, and they even throw in HBO Go.

Subscribing to HBO is like patronage. I like Game of Thrones, True Blood and Bored to Death. I maintain a subscription year-round because I want HBO to keep making those shows. HBO canceled Bored to Death, and I'm still a subscriber, but if HBO canceled GoT or TB I'm not so sure I would be.

Anyone else concerned by the ridiculous amount of pirating going on?

[Ferrous]

Australia also has the issue that most of the population doesn't pay for TV.

Since Game of Thrones isn't shown on the FTA channels then anyone without pay TV won't watch it.

It's also over $61 a month in Australia.

Edited by Ferrous, 23 May 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[kkae]

How many of those pirates are in position where they couldn't have HBO/GoT even if they wanted? Not all of pirates are potential customers.

[Buster]

I would never pirate a show. Although if I didn't have a way of waching GoT, I'd just pirate the episodes every week and then buy the blu-ray set when it's released. But like I said, I'd never pirate a show. Never. ...never.

[unRobert]

For one, it's not as simple as $15 a month. It also requires you to have a decent cable subscription. In my area that runs around 50-60 (before weird fees and taxes) without getting premium content such as HBO.

I, myself go over to a friend's house to watch the show. Is that stealing too? I have never payed HBO a dime for the show.

[erolyn]

unRobert, on 23 May 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

For one, it's not as simple as $15 a month. It also requires you to have a decent cable subscription. In my area that runs around 50-60 (before weird fees and taxes) without getting premium content such as HBO.

I, myself go over to a friend's house to watch the show. Is that stealing too? I have never payed HBO a dime for the show.

I watch it at a friend's house, too.

I don't pay for cable, because I can pay less for just internet service and find nearly all the shows I care about on Netflix and Hulu Plus. Except for HBO shows, and, as previously mentioned, an HBO subscription would run probably from $50-100/month.

Since GoT is probably the most popular HBO show at the moment, I'm not suprised it's the most pirated show on TV. If HBO charged a low fee ($10-$15/month) like Netflix and Hulu do for their HBO Go stuff, maybe fewer people would be pirating.

Edited by erolyn, 23 May 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[wyman's cook]

when the industry acts friendly everybody wins...this is just a part of the whole "piracy" thing..

videogames, CDs , shows, films, even books, are being costantly pirated..the entertainment industry, could and should make itself more attractive, approachable and friendly to the average consumer...Books, films and music should be treated as "cultural" products too and not just as "entertaining luxuries"...

personally, i can't afford to buy CDs (when they average 20-25 euros), pay some sort of cableTV (at around 50-60), buy the latest videogame (that ranges from 60-80 and could also prove some boring crap) etc etc all at the same time...

so i'd better be a "pirate" , than a stupid broke fanboy ... whenever the offer is really appetizing, or worth it, i do save up and, most probably i also eventually buy the product, in a later date..

for example, i'm still waiting for a pocket-friendly version of the Dunk & Egg tales, even though i really despise reading stuff on the pc especially comics

Edited by wyman's cook, 23 May 2012 - 09:28 AM.

[lupis42]

Planetary, on 23 May 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Are these people -- especially in the U.S., the U.K. and most of Europe -- that hard up that they can't put up the $15 a month to watch the show, at least for the three months covering the season?  

Most of the people pirating probably don't have cable, which means the cost is more like ~$100/month, and require having cable installed, which makes doing it for just a few months problematic.  If they don't want that, HBO doesn't want their money - see here: http://theoatmeal.co...game_of_thrones , and here: http://www.theatlant...problem/256919/ for an explanation of why.

ETA:  And for international viewers, the problems are even worse.  Top Gear on the BBC was the worlds most pirated show a few years ago, at the time there was no way for Americans to get it.  No DVD releases, no US broadcast version, nothing.  When a company doesn't make content available to a large market of people who have the internet, those people pirate.

Edited by lupis42, 23 May 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Sword of the Morning Wood]

In the UK, GoT is on Sky Atlantic, which isn't subscription but you do have to have bought the Sky TV package to have it avialable. Maybe some other satellite packages have, I'm not sure.

I have Sky Atlantic and watch GoT when it comes out here on Monday nights. But a lot of the time, I work overnight and quite a few times this season, I'll just watch a pirate copy as soon as it hits the internet on Monday morning (UK time).

If I didn't have Sky Atlantic, you can bet your arse I'd be pirating every episode. I watched season 1 as it came out but I've also re-watched it a couple of times pirated.

I will but all the series on DVD at some point as I do want to support the show and HBO but their problem is a general one for TV, people will go for what's easier and cheaper. The sooner TV companies realise this is a war they can't win and start offering better deals on the internet etc, the sooner they'll start to claw back some revenue from pirates.

Edited by Sword of the Morning Wood, 23 May 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Frumpus]

Everyone knows its HBO's own fault that its shows are so heavily pirated. If it didn't stick to the age-old cable model and tried to participate in the 21st century like the other networks, then its shows wouldn't be so heavily pirated.

HBO knows that people would pay for an online service that isn't attached to a cable contract but they don't care.

[Brienne the Beauty]

I subscribed to HBO *and* cable just to get Game of Thrones. But I'm a hardcore fan of the books, and have been for years. A lot of people I know don't have cable anymore since it is easier to just get stuff on Netflix/less legitimate means. I still barely use the cable, I only watch Game of Thrones and Mad Men at the moment. So it's not really cost-effective for me, but I'm a crazy fan!

It's not realistic to expect fans who are not as crazy as me to subscribe to both cable and HBO. I think the HBO suits are assuming that GOT will provide a tipping point for people who are leaning towards subscribing, but who need a show they really love to justify it to themselves. Personally, I think they could make more money selling HBO GO directly.

Edited by Brienne the Beauty, 23 May 2012 - 11:39 AM.

[Currawong]

In Australia, we cannot subscribe to HBO.   Nor can we get Netflix or similar services.   You wouldn't believe the number of links to genuine TV show sites that come up with the message that "you are outside the UK / USA and do not have the right to access this program", so even if we are willing to pay for legitimate subscriptions to sites, we can't get access.

Apparently there is live-streaming of GoT episodes via iTunes which they are trialing here this year, but that is not always practical either.   I tried that the other day and it didn't work for me (will have another go next week).  Our cable TV is expensive and it not as widespread as in the USA.  No wonder Australians pirate the show: if you don't provide adequate legal options for people to get access - and get that acces on time, not nine days later -  then many people will simply go the illegal route.   In a global marketplace where we can get physical goods shipped across the world in a matter of days, there is absolutely no reason why we cannot get legal access to electronic stuff.   Of course there will always be those people who will pirate stuff simply because they object to paying for anything, but the majority of viewers are happy to pay for things IF they are given the opportunity to do so.

The solution to piracy lies with the global entertainment industry itself.

Edited by Currawong, 23 May 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[lupis42]

Brienne the Beauty, on 23 May 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I subscribed to HBO *and* cable just to get Game of Thrones. But I'm a hardcore fan of the books, and have been for years. A lot of people I know don't have cable anymore since it is easier to just get stuff on Netflix/less legitimate means. I still barely use the cable, I only watch Game of Thrones and Mad Men at the moment. So it's not really cost-effective for me, but I'm a crazy fan!

It's not realistic to expect fans who are not as crazy as me to subscribe to both cable and HBO. I think the HBO suits are assuming that GOT will provide a tipping point for people who are leaning towards subscribing, but who need a show they really love to justify it to themselves. Personally, I think they could make more money selling HBO GO directly.

HBO's not so much working from faulty assumptions as they are taking one for the Turner Team.  Take a look at the Atlantic article I linked above if you've got time, if not, the TL:DR version is simple: HBO is owned by the Turner group which makes money from cable channels that work by hooking channel surfers, and have little or no original content (e.g. TBS).  HBO would benefit massively from making their content available, but the Turner group benefits way more from basic cable subscriptions, and doesn't want HBO undermining that.

[Arkash]

You know, when you're a die hard fan and do not live in the USA... but I'll buy the DVDs as soon as they come out !

[Brienne the Beauty]

lupis42, on 23 May 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

HBO's not so much working from faulty assumptions as they are taking one for the Turner Team. Take a look at the Atlantic article I linked above if you've got time, if not, the TL:DR version is simple: HBO is owned by the Turner group which makes money from cable channels that work by hooking channel surfers, and have little or no original content (e.g. TBS). HBO would benefit massively from making their content available, but the Turner group benefits way more from basic cable subscriptions, and doesn't want HBO undermining that.

That makes sense.

If GoT ever gets cancelled, I'll likely cancel my HBO and cable. Unless they've given me something else awesome to replace it, of course.

[Greywolf2375]

Brienne the Beauty, on 23 May 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

That makes sense. If GoT ever gets cancelled, I'll likely cancel my HBO and cable. Unless they've given me something else awesome to replace it, of course.

We're the same.  We subbed to HBO just for the series - since we got more than one HBO channel we do watch movies as well, but not really any other TV shows just due to time constraints.

I'm not concerned that the level of piracy will be a downfall for the show, though obviously I would much prefer people access it legally and give the benefit to the creators of the material.

[JetboyGirl]

I don't know anything about the entertainment industry, but from what I had gathered, HBO knows well that its shows are pirated. But pirating doesn't actually hurt their business plan. Anyways, a lot of people who pilot the show will buy the DVDs, too.

I will add that even if you have HBO Go in the States, anytime you go overseas you can't watch it, even though you're paying for it. Same with Netflix. I find that extremely annoying.

[StannisandDaeny]

The only way I'm able to watch it here is by taking an entire account while I want to see only one show... which is kinda expensive. I just don't watch television that much. I'd be willing to just pay for an episode and watch it, like you can do with films, but that's not possible. So, I buy the DVD's. It's about 3 euros per episode if you buy the DVD's, even less if you bring the extras into account, so it's not *at all* expensive. I know well enough that there's people who just say they won't pay for anything by default, and to them I say, screw you! And screw these people's stupid excuses for being too greedy to even waste a dollar on anything, as well.

Edited by StannisandDaeny, 23 May 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Grey Stark]

As someone mentioned, in the UK it is only available on Sky Atlantic, which isn't available on cable. A good few of my friends don't have sky, for various reasons (don't like/aren't allowed dishes on their house, objections to news international etc) so they either pirate the show, watch it at their friends or parents. None of these methods send cash to HBO sadly.
Personally, I'll but the box sets, but I'll then rip the episodes from them, as I use xbmc, so digital copies are easier. I would consider pirating the episodes, simply to save the time ripping the episodes, as it's easier, although I'd still buy the disks.

[CrypticWeirwood]

kkae, on 23 May 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

How many of those pirates are in position where they couldn't have HBO/GoT even if they wanted? Not all of pirates are potential customers.

That’s exactly true.  I know one fanatic who has no television at all: no broadcast, no cable, no satellite. He owns the Blu-Ray from the first season, and I think he’s given it away as a gift, too.  Since he can’t get it any other way, he watches it through an unauthorised download. But I’m sure he’ll buy it on disc once it’s available.  He doesn’t bother me so much, because HBO will eventually get more money from him than they get from most people.

Then we have the folks like my dad, who only subscribes to HBO only for the duration of Game of Thrones, then cuts the cord right afterwards.  (Both my parents and all my siblings have read all the books, but I’m probably unusual in this regard.)