96 replies to this topic

[Godbreaker]

im new to the series... but i want to know is

are the only black characters.... or better in the context of the series " dark-skinned" characters... since i don't think the world of "a song of ice and fire" follow racial social contexts... or maybe they do? i just got into the series..

but anyways.. are the only "dark-skinned" characters come from summer islands?

[Gaius Martell]

Seems reasonable, since skin color correlates most closely with latitude in the real world.  I assume people from Sothyros might also have black or dark brown skin.

[ghost the direwolf]

I think so. but I am not sure. Could you name those Charactes. I only remember the prince who is around Knig Robb as been from the Summer Island and may be Missandei.

[Night Gathers]

Summer Islanders are black. I also have a feeling Essos people are darker in general compared to westerosi.
Dothraki are lighter, but darker than the common westerosi.
I also believe people from Dorne are darker than the common westerosi.

[Castel]

The Myrish are also darker, but they're closer to olive oil than anything judging by the descriptions of Taena.

[Longspear Ryk]

Summerislanders are black....
Essos, bravos, and dornish have darker tones simlar to middle eastern, spanish, indian depending on location

Olive, almond, yellow

[Toccs]

All the black characters we've met have been from the Summer Islands so far, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that the natives of Sothyros are also black.
I've always imagined the peoples of Dorne and Essos as looking like people from Mediterranean and Middle East respectively.  The exceptions would be the people from Qaarth who are explicitly stated to be quite pale, and all of the people running aroudn with Valyrian blood.
I assume that further east the peoples of Asshai and Yi Ti would be more asian looking.

Edited by Toccs, 24 May 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Interesting that there seems to be no racism in GRRM's world, only "classism".  Probably not very realistic, but I'm glad he left that out.

Edited by A Bong of Ice and Fire, 24 May 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[Godbreaker]

but the series, correct me if im wrong, mostly takes place in westeros.... which is suppose to be basically "europe" white....

has martin ever delved into the other contienents in his stories, or is it strictly westeros?

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

People from Sothoryos are most likely black. There is also a black squire knighted by Barristan in ADWD (I forgot his name and don't have the book at hand) who was from Basilisk Isles, IIRC.

[Dr. Pepper]

Godbreaker, on 24 May 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

  has martin ever delved into the other contienents in his stories, or is it strictly westeros?

I think you've missed quite a bit if you have to ask that question.  Dany's entire arc takes place in Essos.  From the Free cities all the way to Qarth.  Arya is now in Essos.  Tyrion is now in Essos.  Victarion is sailing to Meereen and makes stops along the way.  I'd say a good portion of the story is delving into another continent.

Edited by Dr. Pepper, 24 May 2012 - 02:55 AM.

[Godbreaker]

Dr. Pepper, on 24 May 2012 - 02:52 AM, said:

I think you've missed quite a bit if you have to ask that question.  Dany's entire arc takes place in Essos.  From the Free cities all the way to Qarth.  Arya is now in Essos.  Tyrion is now in Essos.  Victarion is sailing to Meereen and makes stops along the way.  I'd say a good portion of the story is delving into another continent.

but there all westeros native.. that happened to move to essos

what about essos born POV perspectives

[corbon]

A Bong of Ice and Fire, on 24 May 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Interesting that there seems to be no racism in GRRM's world, only "classism".  Probably not very realistic, but I'm glad he left that out.

Sure there is. Its just not as strongly 'colour' based. Practically everyone in ASoIaF is as rascist as they could possibly be. Anyone not of their own race is almost always 'inferior', 'savages', 'barbarians' or 'dogs(/lambs)' to whom mass-rape is an improvement of their race. America's historical colour based racism is more due to religious justification through a millenia or so (the punishment of Ham?) and Africa being particularly technologically backward when europeans 'discovered' it (at other times some parts of it had been quite advanced) and so relatively easily exploited (and exploitation requires justification if you want to think you can keep a moral high ground).

[Castel]

corbon, on 24 May 2012 - 03:09 AM, said:

Sure there is. Its just not as strongly 'colour' based. Practically everyone in ASoIaF is as rascist as they could possibly be. Anyone not of their own race is almost always 'inferior', 'savages', 'barbarians' or 'dogs(/lambs)' to whom mass-rape is an improvement of their race. America's historical colour based racism is more due to religious justification through a millenia or so (the punishment of Ham?) and Africa being particularly technologically backward when europeans 'discovered' it (at other times some parts of it had been quite advanced) and so relatively easily exploited (and exploitation requires justification if you want to think you can keep a moral high ground).

Yup, it's more a culture thing.

I doubt we will ever get Essosian (that sounds dumb) POVs, Martin has said that the story is about Westeros, with Essos there to reflect it.

[Dr. Pepper]

Godbreaker, on 24 May 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

but there all westeros native.. that happened to move to essos what about essos born POV perspectives

Areo Hotah is Essosi born.  Quentyn and Arianne half Essosi since their mother was from Norvos, though they were born and raised in Westeros.  Dany was born on an island near the Westeros continent but she has never lived there and all of her memories are of Essos.  Melisandre is allegedly from Essos (or at least spent her formative years and trained there).

The story is primarily about Westeros.  The exclusion of many purely Essosi characters is deliberate. It's like an American traveling Asia and then writing about it.  They can see and learn a whole lot but as they aren't from there, there's a lot that they miss.  Dany is about as Essosi a character we get despite her parents hailing from Westeros and her brother having memories of it.

[ARYa_Nym]

A Bong of Ice and Fire, on 24 May 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Interesting that there seems to be no racism in GRRM's world, only "classism".  Probably not very realistic, but I'm glad he left that out.

There was towards Alleras:

Quote

"Leo’s eyes were hazel, bright with wine and malice. “Your mother was a monkey from the Summer Isles. The
Dornish will fuck anything with a hole between its legs. Meaning no offense. You may be brown as a nut, but
at least you bathe. Unlike our spotted pig boy.” He waved ahand toward Pate."

[The Fallen]

A Bong of Ice and Fire, on 24 May 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Interesting that there seems to be no racism in GRRM's world, only "classism".  Probably not very realistic, but I'm glad he left that out.

Actually, this is not unprecedented in our own history. Racism didn't begin until the European empires decided to expand into Africa and other non-white areas of the world. Places like Egypt, and even India and China, were respected and in some cases revered by the Greeks and later the Romans. Trade took place between the West and East and there was mutual respect. Racism really is a fairly new phenomenon in human history.

[Anvilbreaker]

we have a few black characters in the series so far. Sam sails with summer islanders, we have the prince, and the woman who runs little fingers brothel and her daughter. I think their are probably a number of black people in the major cities, based on trade, but they probably try not to get involved in the game of thrones.

[jlk7e]

Valyrians seem to be totally white - where are people getting the idea that people from the Free Cities are darker skinner than people from Westeros?  The Qartheen are also very pale.  Isn't Missandei black, though?

[Stannis' sense of humour]

jlk7e, on 26 May 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Valyrians seem to be totally white - where are people getting the idea that people from the Free Cities are darker skinner than people from Westeros?  The Qartheen are also very pale.  Isn't Missandei black, though?

She's a redhead, I doubt she's black. Haha I was thinking of Missandre!

Edited by Stannis' sense of humour, 26 May 2012 - 03:15 PM.