43 replies to this topic

[Morrigan]

Davos55, on 25 May 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I do wonder why the show has Dany say "fire and blood" in every conversation though. Makes no sense.

They're the Targ words, so the dumb writers feel the need to insert them in every other of Dany's lines. lol

[protar]

xythil, on 25 May 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

....

how about you explain to me how introducing important characters than randomly killing them off is perfectly understandable?

In all fairness I think they went the best route with the Tickler and Amory dying. There was neither the time nor the need to introduce Weese and Chiswyck so it makes sense for them to kill off the already established mooks. The scene at the inn can still happen, because Polliver is still alive and he's the one with Needle. So they probably thought it was more important to keep him around. I do a lot of complaining about this show so I have no problem with others doing the same, but please learn to recognise when a book deviation is necessary.

[madman2711]

I dont understand all the pigshit unnecessary the D&D team feed us from time to time
And if the george allmighty might annoy us with his work d&d sure arent very good at improving they just add mediocre subplots and dialogue and leave the burden on the actors to deliver

[Mulled Wino]

CrypticWeirwood, on 25 May 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

And the rest of the so-called changes — really just necessarily adaptations — that the rabid wombats are frothing about in thread after thread after thread are cases just like this one. This is what I hate about the rabid purissimistas who have a major conniption fit every time somebody puts on their left shoe before their right one instead of the  other way around the way Holy Book had it. They don’t think.  They refuse to put four seconds of thought into understanding the demands and realities of creating a screen adaptation.  It is wholly unrealistic.  

[font=georgia,serif]Thank God they have people running these things who actually have a clue!

Granted the Tickler and SAL are bad examples of adaptations gone wrong, but the producers have certainly whiffed a few times this season.  They've also hit a few hr's (someone already mentioned the Arya capture scene and the quick Lommy death).  Id also add Qarth and everything done so far with the Greyjoys.

Quick, name one dedicated internet forum not infested with rabid wombats and purists...I'll wait.

While I'm waiting, why get so worked up about it

[BlackTalon]

oddly enough, one of the lines I missed most was Cersei´s remark to Sansa after her flowering: "A woman´s life is nine parts mess to one part magic, you´ll learn that soon enough" or something to that effect. I think it reveals so much about her and her motivations, how she has always hated constantly having to defer to the men in her life, and she being A Lioness of the Rock!!! and her resentment at people trying to rob her of her hour in the sun (quote from AFFC, IIRC)

I think it would have made a great catchphrase among the viewers. I hope they don´t leave out Ygritte´s "A man can possess a woman or he can possess a sharp dagger, but not both".

Edited by BlackTalon, 26 May 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Davos55]

CrypticWeirwood, on 25 May 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

And the rest of the so-called changes — really just necessarily adaptations — that the rabid wombats are frothing about in thread after thread after thread are cases just like this one. This is what I hate about the rabid purissimistas who have a major conniption fit every time somebody puts on their left shoe before their right one instead of the  other way around the way Holy Book had it. They don’t think.  They refuse to put four seconds of thought into understanding the demands and realities of creating a screen adaptation.  It is wholly unrealistic.  

Thank God they have people running these things who actually have a clue! Because if these pursissimistas had their way, there would be no show at all.  

Maybe they would like that, if the show never got made, or got cancelled rather than hertetically blashpheming the inalterable Word of God laid down in their Holy ¡GENUFLECT WHEN YOU SAY THAT! Books, but I certainly wouldn’t.

Just curious, is there anything you don't like about the show..or that you think the producers are doing a poor job of? It seems like in every post you have you just praise literally everything that is done in every situation, and just bash everyone who tries to counter any point you have.  I am just wondering why this is necessary..and if you like the show more than the books so far?

[BlackTalon]

Davos55, on 26 May 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Just curious, is there anything you don't like about the show..or that you think the producers are doing a poor job of? It seems like in every post you have you just praise literally everything that is done in every situation, and just bash everyone who tries to counter any point you have.  I am just wondering why this is necessary..and if you like the show more than the books so far?

It must be to properly display his moral and intellectual superiority over all the people who just don´t get that "the show IS NOT THE BOOK!!! YOU CANNOT EXPECT A 100% FAITHFUL adaptation!!!"

I was already on the old black message board, and on this I was among the first 700, but ole Weirdwood is the most annoying poster ever. And he seems to be EVERYWHERE.

I have never had anybody on ignore on this or any of the other boards I frequent, but I am not sure I´ll be able to take his posts much longer.

CrypticWeirwood said:

Much though Aegon has captured my own heart, and perhaps because he has, I must ask you: Why would you, too, wish to be “gorged on grief ” at Summerhall, like the Ghost of High Heart?

There is something soul-killing about reading a story whose tragic end looms inescapable, its ominous shadow reaching back in time from its inevitable finale to smother all of life’s joy, knowing that no matter what, it will all end in utter catastrophe, betrayal, pain, suffering, death, and grief to obliterate the dreams of generations both fore and aft?

Yes, that’s just like real life — which is precisely why we have no use for such in literature. We need stories to inspire us towards courage and hope, even when we know there is no reason for either. To be reminded of the doom that awaits Aegon, so bright and full of promise now, but without any possible hope for the future, is to reminded that we share his fate.

That does not uplift us. It drives us down. No thank you.

Martin already screwed the pooch on this one. It spoils the story with pain, with loss, with fate. It was a mistake. To nought it will all come, and worse than nought: to ruin. Would you be like Rhaegar himself? He was born under Summerhall’s pall of grief, a doom which haunted his songs all the days of his short and melancholy life.

We need not be reminded of the pointless loss, the wasted dreams, the pain of what can never be. Martin already gave away bright Aegon’s fall into tragedy. I need not follow that camera into its ruinous finale. Too much torture-porn ruins your dreams forever.

If that is what reality is all about, you can keep it.

CrypticWeirwood said:

This is why to read the books, the most beautiful thing that Martin has yet written:

As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons.

Isn’t that utterly magical? Wondrously uplifting? It is a sudden joyous turn that makes you weep
This is what all faerie tales are truly about: the eucatastrophe, the release from bondage, the unlooked for rescue when all hope is lost. It is an emotion as poignant as grief. It denies universal defeat, and hints at lasting joy beyond the circles of the world.

It is not grief we seek, but its antithesis.

As for Summerhall, it is nearly impossible to see how any hope could arise from that smoking ruin upon House Targaryen.

I can´t remember the last time I read such pretentious drivel.

Edited by BlackTalon, 26 May 2012 - 08:25 AM.

[boojam]

BlackTalon, on 26 May 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

It must be to properly display his moral and intellectual superiority over all the people who just don´t get that "the show IS NOT THE BOOK!!! YOU CANNOT EXPECT A 100% FAITHFUL adaptation!!!"

I was already on the old black message board, and on this I was among the first 700, but ole Weirdwood is the most annoying poster ever. And he seems to be EVERYWHERE.

I have never had anybody on ignore on this or any of the other boards I frequent, but I am not sure I´ll be able to take his posts much longer.










I can´t remember the last time I read such pretentious drivel.

I am beginning to think we had a troll start this thread.

[xythil]

I just read that the produces were told by Martin that Mago had things to do in future episodes...so it kind of looks like he has no input whatsoever =/

[insertname]

Martin does have input. And Mago is only important as a Dothraki, it's not like anyone's going to remember his name by the time he comes around again anyway. They can just change his role with some other dothraki.

[Arrogant Bastard]

xythil, on 26 May 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

I just read that the produces were told by Martin that Mago had things to do in future episodes...so it kind of looks like he has no input whatsoever =/

The death of Mago has no impact whatsoever on the future of the series. His whole point in the series was just to have his throat ripped out; he's not the same Mago from teh books, just a Dothraki that they used to have the throat ripping scene that htey happened to name Mago. There's no way in hell they were going to have an actor play the Mago from the books, who honestly I don't even remember, and have him appear briefly and then bring him back six years later. Total non-issue. When Mago shows up in TWOW, when teh show gets there they can just change his name to something else and nobody should care.

The early death of the Tickler and Marillon (not dead, but probably not showing up again) have a lot more impact on the story, though the show can still write around it.

Back to the original topic, I wish the writers kept in more of Martin's dialog. I was shocked that the Tyrion getting slapped by Cersei three times in thier first meeitng in ACOK was changed; that whole sequence was hilarious, but left out for some reason.

Some of the "new" scenes have had pretty good dialog, but still, they're not as strong as Martin and for the most part the scenes didn't go anywhere. Here, I'm talking about Arya and Tywin-pretty good scenes but what was the point--and especially all the new Littlefinger scenes, most of which were poor. And Dany's new scenes have just had outright awful dialog. She just keeps screeching "fire and blood!" like a spoiled brat, and her long speech to the Spice King was really, really awful, especially when she did the cliffnotes of that speech to Jorah last episode.

[PatrickStormborn]

Davos55, on 25 May 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I do wonder why the show has Dany say "fire and blood" in every conversation though. Makes no sense.

Maybe you should go back and re-watch her scenes, because she's only said it ONCE.

[Arrogant Bastard]

PatrickStormborn, on 26 May 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Maybe you should go back and re-watch her scenes, because she's only said it ONCE.

I'll take your word for it; I'm not feeling masochistic.

Even if it was only "fire and blood once", all her dialog this season has been screeching, screaming, and pouting about "taking back what is mine"; her arc this season has been pretty awful.

[PatrickStormborn]

Arrogant Bastard, on 26 May 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

I'll take your word for it; I'm not feeling masochistic.

Even if it was only "fire and blood once", all her dialog this season has been screeching, screaming, and pouting about "taking back what is mine"; her arc this season has been pretty awful.

Episodes 1 and 2: she's in the Red Waste; her people are dying - she's sad and angry.
Episode 4: she has to fight for her people.
Episode 5: no screeching.
Episode 6: screeches.
Episode 7: no screeching - her children have been taken, her people are dead - she's sad and angry.
Episode 8: once again, no screeching.

[xythil]

Arrogant Bastard, on 26 May 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

I'll take your word for it; I'm not feeling masochistic.

Even if it was only "fire and blood once", all her dialog this season has been screeching, screaming, and pouting about "taking back what is mine"; her arc this season has been pretty awful.

Why did Dany turn into Viserys =/

[Davos55]

PatrickStormborn, on 26 May 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Maybe you should go back and re-watch her scenes, because she's only said it ONCE.

I was obviously exaggerating..but even so, her dialogue has not been well written this season in my opinion.   I can understand her rationale behind saying some stuff, but I don't think it has been presented in the best manner.  I know you won't agree, but that is my take on it.

[Jolene Brown]

What's funny, and I know this is a bit particular, is that sometimes even when they leave in dialogue, by removing what leads up to it, or changing the context in which it occurs, it still sounds a bit wrong to me.  I guess it IS hard to make an adaptation!  A good example of this is Jaime's lovely vows monologue with Catelyn.  For some reason, it just didn't sound right to me, and I think that's a combination of it being in a different setting and it being a bit out of context of the lengthier conversation leading up to it in the book when compared to the show.  I understand that it's un-avoidable, it's just frustrating when the original works so well.

[sennahoj]

Jolene Brown, on 27 May 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

What's funny, and I know this is a bit particular, is that sometimes even when they leave in dialogue, by removing what leads up to it, or changing the context in which it occurs, it still sounds a bit wrong to me.  I guess it IS hard to make an adaptation!  A good example of this is Jaime's lovely vows monologue with Catelyn.  For some reason, it just didn't sound right to me, and I think that's a combination of it being in a different setting and it being a bit out of context of the lengthier conversation leading up to it in the book when compared to the show.  I understand that it's un-avoidable, it's just frustrating when the original works so well.

You make a good point. I think the changes made to setting, context, plot continuity etc etc during adaptation are interrelated with the changes made to the dialogue. For example the conversation between Tyrion and Cersei in the last episode. There was a lot taken directly from the book, and I was really happy for it, but some of it needed to be changed, such as the age reference ("remember Jaime at 13/17"), or left out, such as everything about Tommen since he wasn't spirited away on the show so Tyrion couldn't make threats about Tommen to Cersei. While the main point of Tyrion and Cersei threatening each other was coming across, it wasn't as strong as in the books because Tyrion didn't threaten to violate his nephew. Had they kept that bit however, it would've been out of character for the much more likeable show-Tyrion.

Edited by sennahoj, 27 May 2012 - 05:25 AM.

[Evamitchelle]

sennahoj, on 27 May 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

You make a good point. I think the changes made to setting, context, plot continuity etc etc during adaptation are interrelated with the changes made to the dialogue. For example the conversation between Tyrion and Cersei in the last episode. There was a lot taken directly from the book, and I was really happy for it, but some of it needed to be changed, such as the age reference ("remember Jaime at 13/17"), or left out, such as everything about Tommen since he wasn't spirited away on the show so Tyrion couldn't make threats about Tommen to Cersei. While the main point of Tyrion and Cersei threatening each other was coming across, it wasn't as strong as in the books because Tyrion didn't threaten to violate his nephew. Had they kept that bit however, it would've been out of character for the much more likeable show-Tyrion.

The worst part of that scene IMO was Cersei calling Pod "little boy". Seriously ? The actor they cast is at least as tall as Cersei...

[PatrickStormborn]

Davos55, on 26 May 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

I was obviously exaggerating..but even so, her dialogue has not been well written this season in my opinion.   I can understand her rationale behind saying some stuff, but I don't think it has been presented in the best manner.  I know you won't agree, but that is my take on it.

So your point has changed from "she only ever talks about fire and blood" to "she's always screeching" to "she's not being presented very well". This is quite a big difference. I personally find that Vanessa Taylor's episodes (4 and 6) have had quite bad dialogue for Daenerys compared to the D&D episodes. But your initial points were quite clearly wrong, and sadly they're thoughts that appear to be shared throughout the fandom (probably because each preview had Dany talking about fire and blood).

I think that Dany's arc has suffered the most this season due to a lack of airtime. Another episode in Qarth before her dragons were taken would have made a huge difference.