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Theon's fate


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145 replies to this topic

#1 alienarea

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 01:18 AM

After the gift chapter I wonder what will happen to Theon.

1. Will Stannis execute him?
2. If so, by sword or by fire?
3. Will that happen before the battle for Winterfell?

I assume we will see the battle for Winterfell through Theon's eyes (we need a pov) and he might die honorable in the battle saving someone instead of being executed. Stannis will keep him alive that long because he needs someone who knows Winterfell.

Thoughts?

#2 aryagonnakill

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:24 AM

I believe theon will survive at least long enough to see ramsey dead

#3 guciomir

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:17 AM

Gift POV chapter suggests that Bran will take some action involving Theon. Whether he will just witness Theon's death or try to "help" him somehow, I don't know.

Still, I believe that Theon will live much longer simply because of the following phrase: What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. I remember reading some interviews or articles where GRRM stated (or where somebody reported it) that he wanted initially to tell the whole story using just the viewpoints from the first book. But at the same time, the first book was supposed to include some Davos and Theon chapters. In the end, they were moved to book 2.

If we think about it more, GRRM has two types of POVs: people who are major characters and people who just witness the story. It was also stated in the interviews that Davos is such "story teller" device, but the same was not said about Theon. My guess is that Theon is not a story teller, but a major character.

What kind of future may be there for Theon? I'll go back to "what is dead may never die". His story is showing a man who failed, who is almost dead. Now, when we finally get TWOW, we can see how he gets stronger, harder and how he fulfills Drowned God phrase. This also goes nicely with "Bran will go evil after he ate Jojen" theory and with Melisadre telling that Drowned God is a vassal of Great Other.

Or he will simply be put to death by Stannis, to satisfy supporters either from South or North.

#4 WayOutWest

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:22 PM

Theon won't become anything stronger, his mutilation at the hands of Ramsey Bolton is penance for going against the Starks IMO. Him 'seeing the light' as it were is setting him up for a last noble sacrifice, which I think is fitting.

#5 Urien the Ragged

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 01:08 PM

let's also not forget that Theon carries the blood of a King.

#6 Free Northman

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 02:50 PM

I posted this on the other Theon thread, relating to Bran, but it answers this question as well.

Remember:

Only death can pay for life.

and

It takes a King's blood to raise a Dragon.

1. Much was made about Theon being the rightful King of the Iron Isles, if only in name, as his physical state makes it impossible for him to ever rule those ruffians, who only respect strength.

2. Theon is so far gone in terms of suffering and mutilation that he needs to be put out of his misery.

3. There is great urgency on Bran's side to resurrect a Dragon, because Jon has just been murdered.

So, Bran needs Theon to be sacrificed in front of a Hear Tree, because then the power of his King's Blood is absorbed into the weirwood network. Bran can then access it and use it to resurrect Jon in front of another Heart Tree at the Wall.

Thus, Theon's death will pay for life, and Theon's King's Blood will raise the Dragon (Rhaegar's son).

It will be a mercy as well, as Theon craves an end to his suffering, and finally, it will be redemptive, because like Gollum, Theon will - through his death - save the world by making it possible for the savior of humanity to be raised from the dead.

It all makes perfect sense. And the timing is perfect as well, as Jon has just been killed, just as Theon is about to be sacrificed

Edited by Free Northman, 27 May 2012 - 02:51 PM.


#7 Direwolf Lager

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 02:56 PM

hopefully someone puts Theon out of his suffering soon and gives him to the Drowned God.

#8 Babeldygob

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 02:03 PM

Asha can be the POV for the Battle of Winterfell. I think Theon will be sacrificed before the Hearttree. At least that's what they will try to do, we'll see if somehow Bran interferes(I think not though).

Edited by Babeldygob, 05 June 2012 - 02:03 PM.


#9 Apple Martini

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:01 AM

I posted this on the other Theon thread, relating to Bran, but it answers this question as well.

Remember:

Only death can pay for life.

and

It takes a King's blood to raise a Dragon.

1. Much was made about Theon being the rightful King of the Iron Isles, if only in name, as his physical state makes it impossible for him to ever rule those ruffians, who only respect strength.

2. Theon is so far gone in terms of suffering and mutilation that he needs to be put out of his misery.

3. There is great urgency on Bran's side to resurrect a Dragon, because Jon has just been murdered.

So, Bran needs Theon to be sacrificed in front of a Hear Tree, because then the power of his King's Blood is absorbed into the weirwood network. Bran can then access it and use it to resurrect Jon in front of another Heart Tree at the Wall.

Thus, Theon's death will pay for life, and Theon's King's Blood will raise the Dragon (Rhaegar's son).

It will be a mercy as well, as Theon craves an end to his suffering, and finally, it will be redemptive, because like Gollum, Theon will - through his death - save the world by making it possible for the savior of humanity to be raised from the dead.

It all makes perfect sense. And the timing is perfect as well, as Jon has just been killed, just as Theon is about to be sacrificed


See, the main problem with this that I see is the timing. The Gift Chapter, where Bran and/or Bloodraven are presumably trying to get Stannis to take Theon to the tree, seems to take place before Jon is ever stabbed. And by before, I mean days before, maybe even up to a week. I presume the idea is to take him to the tree in short order — to whatever end — but this is before Jon is assassinated. Could Bran be looking into the future to see Jon's stabbing and have Theon sacrificed and ready to go before the stabbing happens, I guess. But if we're talking about actions in the here and now, I don't think they add up.

I also think it's a complete waste to develop Theon and give him such weight and complexity and conflict in Dance only to sacrifice him to a tree early in the next book.

Edited by Apple Martini, 06 June 2012 - 12:05 AM.


#10 Faint

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:11 AM

Apple Martini brings up a good point. Remember now, Jon is assassinated on the day he receives a letter that, as of the events in the first Theon chapter from TWoW, has not even been written, much less sent with raven to Castle Black. And from the way Stannis is talking in the chapter, the battle with the Bolton forces is imminent, so Theon will have to be executed very soon.

#11 LordDolorousEdd

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:20 AM

the thing that i dont like about theon is he has lost most of his teeth it freaks me out far more then his fingers or tows missing. he should die but might not depends is asha takes over the role of POV in that area...

#12 Free Northman

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:14 AM

See, the main problem with this that I see is the timing. The Gift Chapter, where Bran and/or Bloodraven are presumably trying to get Stannis to take Theon to the tree, seems to take place before Jon is ever stabbed. And by before, I mean days before, maybe even up to a week. I presume the idea is to take him to the tree in short order — to whatever end — but this is before Jon is assassinated. Could Bran be looking into the future to see Jon's stabbing and have Theon sacrificed and ready to go before the stabbing happens, I guess. But if we're talking about actions in the here and now, I don't think they add up.

I also think it's a complete waste to develop Theon and give him such weight and complexity and conflict in Dance only to sacrifice him to a tree early in the next book.


The weirwood network stores magical power. One would think that once the power of Kingsblood has been absorbed, it can be used at any later stage. Mellisandre burned some people to get the power to raise the shadow baby, but the burning took place quite some time before she exercised her power.

As for the timing - of course Bran is looking into the future. That's the whole point of him becoming a greenseer. Bloodraven knew that the Starks would be important half a century ago - he tells Bran that he watched over the birth of Bran and Eddard and possibly even Eddard's father.

These are prophecies that are being fulfilled. Not random events taking place on the spur of the moment.

#13 pitakon

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 02:26 AM

theon's fate is to become Theon Halfhand.

#14 The Lord of NightSong

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:43 AM

OMG!!!!!!!!!! I just realized something after reading this post!!

What was the point of Bran going through the Weirwood at Winterfell so into into the past and suddenly stop on a random execution that probably happened hundreds of years ago (as we can tell by the description of the trees and everything else). The chapter ends with Bran actually "tasting" the blood of the person that was executed. This would indeed suggest that blood is stored and connected to the Weirwood network! If this is the case, the whole point of Theon being executed in front of the Heart Tree would only prove useful as to Bran being able to use his Kings blood. This would also mean that we would have a redemption moment when Theon kneels in front of the Heart Tree and looks at its eyes and feels Bran's presence. That would definitely be a good ending for the Theon character and if his blood is indeed used to resurrect Jon or whomever other Dragon, that would indeed maintain him as a main character even after death as it happened with Eddard Stark.

#15 I do not sew

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:15 AM

My big problem with Theon being executed (besides being one of the most complex and interesting characters) is the big deal GRRM made out of Asha's revelation right before she abandoned Deepwood, that the Kingsmoot was...moot and Euron's crown is false. I feel like Theon still has a part to play in all that.

Some very interesting ideas being thrown around in here though. If he were executed in front of a Heart Tree, with Bran showing him some kind of sign for reassurance so he went out with a smile on his face, that would be a very fulfilling, emotional gut-punch of an ending to a great arc. Very much like us to think he'll have some sort of grand redemption/vengeance on Ramsay, and very much like GRRM to pull the rug out. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#16 KCenturion

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:13 AM

Maybe Bloodraven will be the rising dragon and he has pulled a fast one on Bran so he can escape his rooty prison.

#17 TyrionsFlagon

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:51 AM

Theon didn't make his full resurrection until the last third of ADWD. I don't think GRRM knocks off Theon in the first half the WoW, or even in the 2nd half. I bet Theon makes it through the next book, somehow.

#18 The Lord of NightSong

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:53 AM

What is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger...........as a dragon! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#19 Silent_Hero

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 02:38 AM

My big problem with Theon being executed (besides being one of the most complex and interesting characters) is the big deal GRRM made out of Asha's revelation right before she abandoned Deepwood, that the Kingsmoot was...moot and Euron's crown is false. I feel like Theon still has a part to play in all that.

Some very interesting ideas being thrown around in here though. If he were executed in front of a Heart Tree, with Bran showing him some kind of sign for reassurance so he went out with a smile on his face, that would be a very fulfilling, emotional gut-punch of an ending to a great arc. Very much like us to think he'll have some sort of grand redemption/vengeance on Ramsay, and very much like GRRM to pull the rug out. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />


Actually IIRC, by having Theon Asha would at most have a re-election that would pretty much have Euron picked as king again. So far no one has any misgiving about Eurons' rule and no way in hell is anyone going to vote for Theons' Gollum looking ass.

I like to theorize that as soon as Asha recognized Theon she cried mostly because her plans would be ruined as no one would vote for Theon thus allowing Euron to get away. And because she was sad too I guess.

Edited by Silent_Hero, 28 September 2012 - 02:40 AM.


#20 Lord Liam DarkStark

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:13 AM

Yes I agree, I don't believe theon will not make it to rule the ironborn. I don't see why george put so much emphasis on only the strong can rule the ironborn, and thats why asha wasn't raised a queen. And she is one tough bitch. Theon is maimed and weak the ironborn won't rise up against euron to go to their doom at theon's hand. Asha could do a great job at ruling through theon's name. I'm doubtful about that but it wouldn't shock me for george to have theon make it through the series. I just don't see how he could hope to rule after being so tormented by the bastard of bolton.

Also agree that something needs to happen at the weirwood or that was a waste of time it is in asha's personality to want to save theon more torment, after witnessing the poor foot soldiers that burned for cannabilism.

Edited by Lord Liam DarkStark, 28 September 2012 - 05:16 AM.