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Theon's fate


alienarea

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Here's a summary of the conversation they had below.

After this conversation you would think saga will at least try to make off with the on. Whether she is successful is up to the almighty (GRRM) lol

Source:

http://adwd-reread.blogspot.com/2011/07/wayward-bride.html?m=1

When the talk of Tris and Asha goes back to the kingsmoot, Tris tells her that she has to accept its outcome, since she can’t declare it illegal like Torgon Greyiron, called Latecomer, did hundreds of years past. Tris tells his story. Being away when his father died, his brothers called a kingsmoot which he defied on return, claiming it illegal for not being there and allowed to make his case. He then won the ensuing war and became king. Asha thanks Tris for the great notion, without being able to tell him what she means since a horn is blown"

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I suspect if Stannis and the North learned Bram and Rickon were still alive, Stannis would be willing to hold onto him for a bit longer. Especially if it meant a Kingsmoot could be summoned again with a chance to get the Iron Isles under this thumb. Euron would have to respond, and would have his captains return to the Islands with him. Of course, the captains would never vote for Theon over Euron unless he did something absolutely disastrous as a leader (which he might), but more likely he'd show up to end the farce and make sure his legitimacy remained strong. At which point, ambush! Maybe Stannis, maybe Aeron, maybe Asha.

Thats how I would play it out.

I don't know, Stannis will have White Harbor and her fleet if he can take Winterfell, and if Wyman Manderly survives. With the Iron Fleet gone to Essos, I would seize the Iron Islands, feed Euron to the flames (kings blood and all) and make them my vassals with Theon (it will not be Asha, Theon is the elder) as Liege. He's about to be in debt big-time to the Iron Bank, he needs all the taxes he can get. Iron Islands, Iron Bank - Connection?

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I'm talking nonsense as usual.The parliament is a collective noun that refers to rooks.The collective noun for ravens is an "unkindness",which has to be the best one of the lot.

Back on topic, I'm still wondering if we will see some unkindness on that island.

Isn't there also a murder of crows? Are crows and ravens the same thing or two different kinds of the same bird?

On topic, I'm hoping Theon is sacrificed to Bran the tree who then uses his blood to resurrect Jon as Ghost or Azor. It will be a beautiful redemption arc if he does do that. I also would be fine if he saves Winterfell or Bran and Rickon, and dies a hero that way.

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Having just re-read A Clash of Kings I've shaken off all the sympathy for Theon that built up over the later books. He was truly awful. He's since had his personality and body broken and now has the chance to become a better person but he's a long way off redemption. He needs to help restore the Starks in some way.


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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't think Theon will end up 1,000th commander of the Watch. I am not even sure the Watch is going to survive after the books. Their prophecy has almost been fulfilled and I am pretty sure that the Others will breach the Wall and get at least as far as Riverrun. But if there is a 1000th commander my money is on Dany appointing Jorah Mormont.

I agree. (Although I'd also like Jon Snow as the once and future Lord Commander of the watch and becoming 1000th LC.)

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I'll be so annoyed if Theon actually is sacrificed to the tree. For one of the most interesting characters to die early on in the next book would be so disappointing to me, especially if Theon just gets used to bring Jon Snow back to life who, in my opinion, is an inferior character.



"What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."


Surely GRRM will apply this to Theon? That would make the most sense to me. Imagine if Theon Greyjoy, who spent most of his life away from the Iron Islands and who was rejected by his family actually ended up being the one who lived up to the Drowned God's prayer?



Also, maybe I'm being naive here, I don't know, but...Would GRRM really blatantly reveal what is going to happen to a major character in a sample chapter? "Hey guys, here's a preview that specifically states Theon will be sacrificed to a tree and...that's exactly what happens." The character of Theon deserves more than his fate being more or less revealed in a preview chapter before the book has even come out.


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Theon didn't make his full resurrection until the last third of ADWD. I don't think GRRM knocks off Theon in the first half the WoW, or even in the 2nd half. I bet Theon makes it through the next book, somehow.

I agree. I don't think Theon makes it to the end of the story, but he has a ways to go yet.

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Here's a summary of the conversation they had below.

After this conversation you would think saga will at least try to make off with the on. Whether she is successful is up to the almighty (GRRM) lol

Source:

http://adwd-reread.blogspot.com/2011/07/wayward-bride.html?m=1

When the talk of Tris and Asha goes back to the kingsmoot, Tris tells her that she has to accept its outcome, since she can’t declare it illegal like Torgon Greyiron, called Latecomer, did hundreds of years past. Tris tells his story. Being away when his father died, his brothers called a kingsmoot which he defied on return, claiming it illegal for not being there and allowed to make his case. He then won the ensuing war and became king. Asha thanks Tris for the great notion, without being able to tell him what she means since a horn is blown"

yep. it's pretty obvious Asha is thinking about putting Theon on the throne.

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I would really like Theon to survive at lease enough to see the Boltons dead and I think he deserves a heroic death maybe protecting Rickon or something i don't think Stannis will kill him i think when Theon is about to be executed Davos and Rickon and Shaggydog appear just enought to save Theon thats the only way the Northern Lords will believe the Stark boys are alive is if Rickon appears. But i don't think he'll survive the series but a heroic death a noble one would be great for him sums up his whole come back from Reek to Theon arc


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It wouldn't surprise me if Theon slinks away from the chaos that ensues once Stannis sacks Winterfell, hides in the crypts, finds Lyanna's tomb and some evidence of Jon's lineage, and then blows the lid off that secret for everyone who's listening.


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  • 2 weeks later...

This is so interesting - I definitely think the whole weirwood-kingsblood sacrifice theory is a strong possibility.


I would never have said so before except Bran witnessing the other sacrifice is a pretty strong allusion, and it really does offer Theon's character redemption.


I have never considered the similarities between Theon and Gollum but I love it.





Theon didn't make his full resurrection until the last third of ADWD. I don't think GRRM knocks off Theon in the first half the WoW, or even in the 2nd half. I bet Theon makes it through the next book, somehow.





^ This is the only thing that makes me doubt the theory (on top of the obvious, being that we can't ever truly know where GRRM is going). However, when I think it out, Theon's current stage of character development could still be on par with an imminent death. If Gollum is somehow any indication of when Theon may meet his death, it is likely right on the end of his next (final) downfall. i.e. in Lord of the Rings Gollum is Smeagol, is then taken slave by the ring (hence the name Gollum which means slave), then we see him struggle with his identity and in many ways return back to Smeagol, before he once more gives in to being the ring's slave.



Theon became Reek, and then remembered his own name. Will he become Reek right before dying again? I don't think so.


I think for Reek there a few things that round off his sad story


1) the fact that he has simply gone from one captor to another (albeit the latter is not so much a sadist)


2) he has remembered his name, but his true identity remains long lost (similarly to Gollum when he remembers Smeagol and begins once again referring to himself by that name). Theon has not only been physically disfigured - his entire psychology is still affected by Ramsay and the fear he inspires within Theon. We barely see a page go by in a Theon POV without reading at least a reference to Ramsay.


3) he will always believe the only people he ever truly belonged with, the Starks, will forever curse him (and to a great extent that's probably true)



To all those bringing up the whole kingsmoot thing, there is a major point here that is still of significance, however Theon is only distantly involved.



Yes, the ironborn value strength above all else. Yes, Asha is one strong woman and probably deserved to be named King (or Queen). The 'strong' is not the problem - the 'woman' is. This is actually GRRM exploring the way in which a category that means nothing compared the person you are distorting an entire societies' perception of you. It is not that Asha isn't strong enough, or that her claim is too weak, it is that the society that THINKS they are valuing strength ultimately value first the male sex and second strength at that kingsmoot. Where Theon links in is that he isn't as strong as Asha - nor was he ever. However, if he were around during his Father's death the rule would likely have come to him simply because he was born male. If Asha and Theon switched sexes, she would be the ultimate ironborn leader.



There is a chance that she could, in the future, reclaim leadership, however I don't think so. The message would be stronger if she didn't. At the least, if she does, I doubt Theon will be involved - unless it is simply to reiterate the confusion of the male sex and masculinity for the ironborn.


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It wouldn't surprise me if Theon slinks away from the chaos that ensues once Stannis sacks Winterfell, hides in the crypts, finds Lyanna's tomb and some evidence of Jon's lineage, and then blows the lid off that secret for everyone who's listening.

Or this. I like this. But doesn't really flow so smoothly into the story.

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