156 replies to this topic

[zippypoodle]

Howdyphillip, on 27 May 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

I can not agree with this more...

GRRM is putting his name on this series. If any of the writing or producing would have offended him to the extent that we read about here, I am absolutely positive that he would have withdrawn. Instead, he is writing in the parameters of what has already been written a good portion is not exactly like he wrote it in his books. D&D has done a brilliant job of setting us up for this climax.

Actually, I can imagine what GRRM would say to someone who complained that the show was ruined because they changed the names of the men who went with Qhorin Halfhand.*  And it's not pretty.

*believe it or not, someone actually posted this

[Lord Godric]

Katydid, on 27 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

THAT is how you adapt an episode, and THAT is how you write these characters.

Absolutely fantastic to finally see The Real Cersei emerge this season.

Tyrion's humor and bravery.  The Hound's fear.  Joffrey's chicken-shittedness.  And the list goes on.

Thank you GRRM.

I agree hands down about Cersei.  THAT is how Cersei should have been all along on this show.  THAT is Cersei.  Unhinged, emotional, fearless.  I wish she would always be written like that because that is how the character really is.  I guess only Martin knows how to do it though, because it does it beautifully!

[_Oberyn_]

Katydid, on 27 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

THAT is how you adapt an episode, and THAT is how you write these characters.

Absolutely fantastic to finally see The Real Cersei emerge this season.

Tyrion's humor and bravery.  The Hound's fear.  Joffrey's chicken-shittedness.  And the list goes on.

Thank you GRRM.

Cressit, on 27 May 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Thank you GRRM for the scene with The Hound and Bronn to set the tone for the fighting men of the episode.

Jennelyn, on 27 May 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Yes, it was definitely obvious who wrote this episode. Very VERY well done!

scurvy, on 27 May 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

The Rains of Castamere was awesome and even moreso in the credits.

Tyrion alluding to a wedding being the worst thing in life.  Terrific.

Varys talking about being cut and the dark arts.  Nice touch.

Everyone was pitch perfect- Tyrion, Cersei, Bronn, Sandor, Sansa, Stannis, Davos and no BS in the other parts of Westeros and Essos despite the credits map.

Totally blown away.

HEAR HEAR

[Bastard of Boston]

zippypoodle, on 27 May 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

The problem is that show Cersei is a better and more interesting character than book Cersei. Book Cersei is practically a Disney-villainess and pretty much Martin's worst-written characters, especially once she gets a POV. The non-Martin writers have improved on Cersei as far as I'm concerned.

I'll just write it off as the stress of the situation and the wine bringing out the worst side of her.

I agree with this. But, I'm going to throw in that the way Cersei has been altered (for the better) on the show makes me appreciate this more erratic version. I think, at the end of the day, I appreciate how Cersei isn't one dimensional. In the books, she tends to be that way. The show started with her being much cooler -- much more aloof and shrewd. I enjoyed that. And, now you have a desperate and drunk Cersei in Blackwater. I don't like to talk about GRRM's Cersei in this episode and D&D's Cersei as two different characters -- as I'm seeing right now. For me, they both compliment one another...the show's Cersei is wonderfully nuanced.

Edited by Bastard of Boston, 27 May 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[zippypoodle]

Bastard of Boston, on 27 May 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

I agree with this. But, I'm going to throw in that the way Cersei has been altered (for the better) on the show makes me appreciate this more erratic version. I think, at the end of the day, I appreciate how Cersei isn't one dimensional. In the books, she tends to be that way. The show started with her being much cooler -- much more aloof and shrewd. I enjoyed that. And, now you have a desperate and drunk Cersei in Blackwater. I don't like to talk about GRRM's Cersei in this episode and D&D's Cersei as two different characters -- as I'm seeing right now. For me, they both compliment one another...the show's Cersei is wonderfully nuanced.

I agree with your explanation of why the more-erratic Cersei we see here still works.

[Tourniquet]

I give the other writers the benefit of the doubt. Its obvious that this was the best episode by far and it really is no wonder...this is Georges child and he treats it well.

[King Tommen]

I agree that Martin did an amazing job and it stands to reason because a) he unquestionably knows these characters and this world better than anyone else and he's a fine screenwriter in his own right.  But also take into account that Martin was gift wrapped the episode with the most dramatic impact, had the most action, climaxed many of the threads that had been set up earlier in the season and had 10x the budget of any other episode so far on the show.

He also was allowed to have an entire 60 minutes devoted to one location and not have to jump around from one spot to another trying to cover off 7-8 different completely disparate plot threads which often make other episodes seem disjointed.  The other writers can certainly learn a lot from Martin but they had to do a lot of the heavy lifting in order to set up this episode for Martin to knock over all the pins.

If you want to look at how Martin does on a level playing field, you can check out "The Pointy End" which is his Season 1 episode, structured in a much more conventional sense.  It is a very strong entry but I wouldn't necessarily say the best of the season and it didn't stand out significantly from the episodes immediately before or after (which were all excellent IMO).

[dayman]

GRRM needs to write everything on the show even if it means the books take longer the writing was so superior to other episode it wasn't even funny

[Tourniquet]

King Tommen, on 27 May 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

I agree that Martin did an amazing job and it stands to reason because a) he unquestionably knows these characters and this world better than anyone else and he's a fine screenwriter in his own right.  But also take into account that Martin was gift wrapped the episode with the most dramatic impact, had the most action, climaxed many of the threads that had been set up earlier in the season and had 10x the budget of any other episode so far on the show.

He also was allowed to have an entire 60 minutes devoted to one location and not have to jump around from one spot to another trying to cover off 7-8 different completely disparate plot threads which often make other episodes seem disjointed.  The other writers can certainly learn a lot from Martin but they had to do a lot of the heavy lifting in order to set up this episode for Martin to knock over all the pins.

If you want to look at how Martin does on a level playing field, you can check out "The Pointy End" which is his Season 1 episode, structured in a much more conventional sense.  It is a very strong entry but I wouldn't necessarily say the best of the season and it didn't stand out significantly from the episodes immediately before or after (which were all excellent IMO).

This is exactly right. This was unquestionably the best episode. But it is also unquestionably the best possible episode to write, especially for Martin. GRRM gets his rocks off on this type of stuff. He knocked it out of the park, lets hope Valar Morghulis is a fitting end!

[zippypoodle]

dayman, on 27 May 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

GRRM needs to write everything on the show even if it means the books take longer the writing was so superior to other episode it wasn't even funny

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

[House Martell]

I have not liked Lena Headly's Cersei until tonight. she was amazing in this episode. The writing was SO noticeably better, I'm sorry but the other writers should be embarrassed after seeing "Blackwater". Cersei and Cat have been very watered down so far but this gives me hope for the future (of course now there's only 1 episode left, and will have to wait a year).

The San-San scene was near perfect, I never fully got it, but that made it so clear

[ckal]

_Oberyn_, on 27 May 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

[img]http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png[/img]Katydid, on 27 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

THAT is how you adapt an episode, and THAT is how you write these characters.

Absolutely fantastic to finally see The Real Cersei emerge this season.

Tyrion's humor and bravery. The Hound's fear. Joffrey's chicken-shittedness. And the list goes on.

Thank you GRRM.
[img]http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png[/img]Cressit, on 27 May 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Thank you GRRM for the scene with The Hound and Bronn to set the tone for the fighting men of the episode.
[img]http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png[/img]Jennelyn, on 27 May 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Yes, it was definitely obvious who wrote this episode. Very VERY well done!
[img]http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png[/img]scurvy, on 27 May 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:
The Rains of Castamere was awesome and even moreso in the credits.

Tyrion alluding to a wedding being the worst thing in life. Terrific.

Varys talking about being cut and the dark arts. Nice touch.

Everyone was pitch perfect- Tyrion, Cersei, Bronn, Sandor, Sansa, Stannis, Davos and no BS in the other parts of Westeros and Essos despite the credits map.

Totally blown away.

HEAR HEAR

QFT!

[kimo333]

thank you grrm for making grrm a bitch

[The Other Knight]

People do realize that Cersei was acting this way because she was drunk and afraid for her and her children's lives right? The character was just like she has been the entire show, especially during the final scene. She wasn't written any differently.

[Night Gathers]

With all these positive remarks I'm really looking forward to watching this episode!

[Eggplant Wizard]

Bronn, the Hound and Cersei were great. I thought Tyrion was slipping a bit this season but that was a good episode with him, it felt more like the real Tyrion.

[Seprious]

Risking parroting every other post made here...

Hands down best episode of the season.

[Brucolac]

scurvy, on 27 May 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

The Rains of Castamere was awesome and even moreso in the credits.

That was a nice choice using the National for that.

[DornishKnight]

Katydid, on 27 May 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

And Dinklage!

And Alfie!

[Golden Twin]

Katydid, on 27 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

THAT is how you adapt an episode, and THAT is how you write these characters.

Absolutely fantastic to finally see The Real Cersei emerge this season.

Tyrion's humor and bravery.  The Hound's fear.  Joffrey's chicken-shittedness.  And the list goes on.

Thank you GRRM.

Agreed to the fullest. A faithful and brilliant episode which accomplished so much in the confines of budget, production etc. Amazing writing by GRRM. Goes to show that the shit they have been pulling this season which cannot be explained by production constraints and seem to be dumbass writers' attempt at showing off is unacceptable. Seriously sack these imitators and let GRRM write everything.