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[Book Spoilers] Is SanSan Dead and Buried?


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#21 Lannes

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:22 PM

I agree with Christina ... there are many ways to interpret the doll

Another way to interpret the doll is that she goes from clutching it to her chest to having it hang upside down and seemingly unnoticed... this could symbolize her growing up (setting aside childhood) or it might even symbolize her letting go of a real chance to return to her father's lands.

That's the biggest thing I took away from that scene- the doll dropping symbolizing Sansa is putting her childhood behind her.

#22 Caro99

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:30 PM

Gosh... I was literally unable to speak after the episode ended. And san/san... Wow. I was in shock trying to decide if I liked her going with him or not (but then the preview for next week crush that) ok so about a future between them: I am a devoted san/san shipper and want them to be together against all odds in the end <3 it was sad we didn't have the song or the un-kiss moment or her cupping his cheek, (I think we can still have her hugging his cloak next week- i can't recall if he was wearing any) but I loved how they both acted and the face of sandor as he wants to make her realize that all men are bad. I think the fact that after he says this and calls robb and ned killers, we don't see sansa calling him horrid but instead daring to trust him speaks volumes. And I liked how george clarified that sandor did indeed thought of taking sansa to winterfell. I like what ran said about how the show is one thing, the books another and george may not have been allowed to write the moment like he wanted, but cause it justifies my future clinging to the belief that these 2 are bound to meet again. I can see sansa in an upcoming scenario where she is either alayne stone or a sort of queen in the north unable to trust anyone and then sandor appears after the quiet isle and she remembers how he said he would not harm her... Oh well. I' writing this from my phone so I'll come back tomorrow with a clearer head /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#23 Fragile Bird

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:36 PM

Caro99, as I said, I hope Ran's right, because I was so looking forward to the tension in that scene, and the song for Sandor and the dropped cloak. While Sansa is surprised to see Sandor there, you don't have the fear factor from the book. And while Sandor is drinking, he's still appears more or less sober. And I do hope this is just a matter of time constraints.

#24 towerofjoy

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:36 PM

I think Sansa symbolized innocence to Sandor. And because he lost his very early he alternates between hating her innocence and wanting to protect it. I don't think it was sexual at all on his part.

Sansa is always looking for her Florian. Sandor and Tyrion don't really fit the bill but always save her from others like Joff seemed to initially. She has been in a desperate situation since Ned's death - and is likely looking for a protector more in the model of a father than lover.

#25 Tourniquet

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:49 PM

I think that in subsequent seasons she can imagine a remembrance of the scenario that didn't happen AT ALL. She might mention that she sang to him and he tried to kiss her when none of that happens. It will be even MORE of a fabrication of the truth in the show.

#26 Valkyrja

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:54 PM

I have to chime in here and say that I too hope Ran is correct here! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I love the Sansa and Sandor scenes, and was gutted they weren't featured more in the HBO series. I was hoping this episode would include a bit more at least, but even GRRM can't completely undo what was done earlier in the show (that is, to downplay it).

I also firmly believe the 'San/San' (I'm scared to even say that phrase on these boards some days!) element was toned down in the series due to the even bigger age-gap between the actors in the show than the already-wide age gape between Sansa and Sandor in the books. Despite loving this odd pairing (in terms of enjoying seeing them interact), I can see how TV audiences would find it disturbing or hard to understand if a) he was a lot more violent and angry towards her and /cool.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> he was even remotely 'sexual' towards her.

Perhaps I am just rationalizing. Of COURSE I know this was written by GRRM, but for me.....'San/San' won't be 'dead and buried' until the characters either never meet again or die horrible deaths, or the novels end without any resolution between them whatsoever. All of which are certainly possible. Nevertheless, I refuse to believe that lack of book San/San this episode means anything other than ....this is not the books. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#27 Lord Elrosir

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:58 PM

I also firmly believe the 'San/San' (I'm scared to even say that phrase on these boards some days!) element was toned down in the series due to the even bigger age-gap between the actors in the show than the already-wide age gape between Sansa and Sandor in the books.


Bingo. The Hound was already unlikeable enough being close to Joffrey and doing his deeds. Where he is right now is able to have redemption with Arya. Playing his shit out from the book would just make him seem to be a creepster to American viewers.

Edited by Lord Elrosir, 27 May 2012 - 11:59 PM.


#28 Caro99

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:06 AM

Ok ok I could not stay away until tomorrow I'm afraid to say /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> lol, well fragile bird and valkyrja, I totally agree with what you both said! To have ran saying that we should not really call san/san dead now was great and made me recall george burying 'the hound' but leaving the posibility of sandor alive. damn, george really likes to keep us speculating with his subtle hints about these 2 even in the show x) I wonder how the show will deal with sansa staying in kl next week cause I really did for a moment thought they had actually decided to have them go away together.. I think that I could have forgiven the show a little as I mentioned on another thread the lack of song and white cloak if we had only seen sansa cupping sandor's cheek after he tells her that she can trust him. That would have been beautifully bittersweet <3

#29 Christina Ceriddwynn

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:10 AM

HBO is setting LF up, methinks...

they already had him telling Sansa about Sandor's burns instead of Sandor himself and in the previews, they have him telling her the "Look around you, they are all liars and everyone one of them is better than you" which was.....another Sandor line!!!

SO........they are giving ALL of Sandor's lines to LF!

#30 Gaius Martell

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:10 AM

They've spent more time on Sandor/ Sansa than they would need to were that relationship not important, considering everything else that's been cut from the TV series.

#31 Fragile Bird

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:11 AM

What worries me is the thought that, lol, the 2 Ds know the ending of the series (in case anything happens to George) and the relationship has been downplayed because it ain't gonna happen. Or, hopefully, it's been played down because, as Lord Elrosir says above, Sandor would seem too much of a creepster.

But it does seem to take away the infamous "I shoulds fucked her bloody" comment made to Arya, because there is no hint, really, of any underlying sexual turmoil in Ep. 9.

#32 ckal

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:12 AM

Sandor was trying to be....heroic. He wanted to save Sansa....but why?


We don't know the answer to this. He's always shown 'kindness' and 'honesty' with Sansa on the show. Far more than most others have at least.

#33 Lord Godric

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:13 AM

They've spent more time on Sandor/ Sansa than they would need to were that relationship not important, considering everything else that's been cut from the TV series.

Absolutely. Just the fact *any* scenes between them made it to the show says something.

#34 Valkyrja

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:15 AM

Sandor was trying to be....heroic. He wanted to save Sansa....but why?


We don't know the answer to this. He's always shown 'kindness' and 'honesty' with Sansa on the show. Far more than most others have at least.



This.

I am hoping that non-book-reading viewers have at the very least picked up that there is something 'special' between these two (even if, in the end, it *is* just a protective/paternal thing).

#35 Buster

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:15 AM

They've spent more time on Sandor/ Sansa than they would need to were that relationship not important, considering everything else that's been cut from the TV series.

From what I can see the only thing that would please SanSan fans would be 10 hours of SanSan scenes.

#36 Valkyrja

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:16 AM

From what I can see the only thing that would please SanSan fans would be 10 hours of SanSan scenes.



Oh, be still my heart!!!!


/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

#37 Christina Ceriddwynn

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:22 AM

well hells bells.....anything but ros and endless "i will take what is mine" bla bla bla shut up already Dany! lol

#38 Christina Ceriddwynn

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:24 AM

my ex...(yes he's a MAN)....even picked up on something with sansa and sandor and he hasnt read the books.

he commented on it 2 episodes ago and i told him they dont interact after this season.....he was surprised

"then what's with the setup, then?"

#39 Dragon of Valyria

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:29 AM

Yeah, I don't think SanSan ever existed to the extent (or at fucking all) the shippers imply.


It certainly exists on the show though--they've gone out of their way to show them together, and the scene tonight somehow turned what was sinister and scary in the book into something sweet (for a mentally damaged murderer).

Still, his departure from the city at least means we won't be subjected to it anymore. Sansa deserves much better.

#40 Buster

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:31 AM

and endless "i will take what is mine" bla bla bla shut up already Dany! lol

My guess is that we'll get at least one more "I WILL TAKE WHAT IS MINE!!!" scene outside the HotU this season and a few (hundred) more in the seasons to come. She will never stop with the repetitive dramatic speeches.

he commented on it 2 episodes ago and i told him they dont interact after this season.....he was surprised

We still have two books left, they have time to meet again.

Edited by Buster, 28 May 2012 - 12:32 AM.