285 replies to this topic

[Fragile Bird]

The fans of Sansa and Sandor have been disappointed about how little air time the relationship between Sansa Stark and Sandor Clegane has received, going back to season 1.  Tonight, in an episode written by GRRM himself, a scene that fans of the couple have loved, was gutted.  The fleeing Sandor waited for Sansa to return to her room, and among other things, demanded a song from Sansa.  Sansa sings for him and afterwards, in the next books, starts remembering things that didn't happen, infamously, the remembered kiss.  None of this appeared tonight.

Does this mean the end of SanSan?

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

Unsure.....this scene didnt have the "let's be emo drunk and stick a knife to the girl's throat" theme and was more of the "I want to rescue you...no Little Bird I won't hurt you, you are safe with me" theme....

Also, it is of interesting note that she goes into her room and picks up the doll her father gave her, holds it, and after she tells him he won't hurt her (which was more of an affirmation/statement/realization than a question), they zoom in on the doll while her hand seems to drop it while she looks after him.

That can be interpreted in a few different ways

Edited by Christina Ceriddwynn, 27 May 2012 - 09:43 PM.

[House Snow]

Lets hope so

[Ran]

It should be remembered that even when GRRM is writing, he still has to work within whatever parameters the writers have set. If they've radically altered a character, he has to stick with it. In this case, it seems to me that the threat of rape and the kiss and other elements of that scene that aren't present are likely not present because the producers have never made them evident and don't want them to be.

Why? I've no idea, but I have a theory or two. In any case, these missing elements don't necessarily mean that anything is "dead". I mean, how can a relationship turn on one scene like that? There's enough there that you can maybe sorta see something in the future.

[Fragile Bird]

House Snow, on 27 May 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Lets hope so

So cruel . . . .

[Ser Giant]

House Snow, on 27 May 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Lets hope so

Definitely this.

[Fragile Bird]

Ran, on 27 May 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

It should be remembered that even when GRRM is writing, he still has to work within whatever parameters the writers have set. If they've radically altered a character, he has to stick with it. In this case, it seems to me that the threat of rape and the kiss and other elements of that scene that aren't present are likely not present because the producers have never made them evident and don't want them to be.

Why? I've no idea, but I have a theory or two. In any case, these missing elements don't necessarily mean that anything is "dead". I mean, how can a relationship turn on one scene like that? There's enough there that you can maybe sorta see something in the future.

I sure hope so.  But I am having doubts.

[Katydid]

Christina Ceriddwynn, on 27 May 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Unsure.....this scene didnt have the "let's be emo drunk and stick a knife to the girl's throat" theme and was more of the "I want to rescue you...no Little Bird I won't hurt you, you are safe with me" theme....

Also, it is of interesting note that she goes into her room and picks up the doll her father gave her, holds it, and after she tells him he won't hurt her (which was more of an affirmation/statement/realization than a question), they zoom in on the doll while her hand seems to drop it while she looks after him.

That can be interpreted in a few different ways

I noticed that as well.  It was as if George was trying to say he intended more of a daughter-ish/protector role as the core of their relationship...not a romantic one.  He is drawn to her innocence, he wants to protect her, but it's not a sexual attraction.

I always thought Sansa later remembering a kiss that never happened was just her childish tendency to romanticize everything trying hard to stay alive.  She's terrified of the Hound and in no way attracted to him, yet she recalls him kissing her?  Sounds like a random firing out of one of her beloved songs about Knights saving Ladies.

[House Snow]

Fragile Bird, on 27 May 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

So cruel . . . .

Couldn't resist. Im quite anti Sansan.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

well heck in the books I never got that he wanted to "make her a woman" as he always commented how she was a little girl so I read it that this was how he saw her....as a little girl.

shrug

....but i also acknowledge little girls eventually grow up

[Lord Godric]

If by dead you mean nauseatingly evident, then yes.  I seriously think we've seen so much of it that it's impossible to call dead.

[Fragile Bird]

Lord Godric, on 27 May 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

If by dead you mean nauseatingly evident, then yes.  I seriously think we've seen so much of it that it's impossible to call dead.

In the books, yes, in Westeros threads, yes, on HBO, not at all.

[Lord Godric]

Really?  We've had more scenes alluding to SanSan than any other non-canon pairing.

Hell, it's even in the "Last Time on GoT" clips.

Edited by Lord Godric, 27 May 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[Ser Hippie]

They're just setting Sandor and Sansa up for a breathtaking Bollywood-style coordinated dance number in season 6.

[jons nissa]

Lord Godric, on 27 May 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Really?  We've had more scenes alluding to SanSan than any other non-canon pairing.

Hell, it's even in the "Last Time on GoT" clips.

that was to set up their interaction in this week's episode. they always show clips in the last time section to remind viewers of where we are with a character. i think hbo has shown very clearly that this is not a ship.

Katydid, on 27 May 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

I noticed that as well.  It was as if George was trying to say he intended more of a daughter-ish/protector role as the core of their relationship...not a romantic one.  He is drawn to her innocence, he wants to protect her, but it's not a sexual attraction.

this! almost. i agree their relationship was always one of him wanting to protect her and keep her safe. he was drawn to her innocence. but on the night of blackwater bay he was drawn to it in a not so innocent way. sansa, in turn, was just following her old ways of responding to a knight in shining armor coming to her rescue. hence the false memory. it was more a sign of her clinging on to her dreams coupled with ptsd, imho.

i never saw sandor's leaving the cloak as symbolic on his part but for sansa, still in her fantasy world, it is. i kind of expect grrm to have her hold onto it until she is finally ready to leave that way of thinking completely behind her.

that said, sansa was amazing in tonight's episode. her performance was stellar and truly that of a queen.

[scurvy]

The Bear and the Maiden Fair. "I called for a knight!" "But you're a bear!" "A bear! A bear," "All black and brown," "And cover in hair!"

[Bride of Winter]

If we're talking the romantic sense, it can stay dead for all I care. I always found SanSan icky, but I think the relationship between them is really interesting, and I sort of think this episode whitewashed it a little

[Lord Godric]

jon, on 27 May 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

that was to set up their interaction in this week's episode. they always show clips in the last time section to remind viewers of where we are with a character. i think hbo has shown very clearly that this is not a ship.

It's really no different than how it is portrayed in the books.  The only difference is that Sansa begins to fantasize about Sandor and their "kiss" later on.  I never thought they had a "ship" and I never thought canon allowed for that interpretation, at least not based on the actual interactions.  Based on Sansa's recollections later, maybe.

[Balefont]

Yeah, I don't think SanSan ever existed to the extent (or at fucking all) the shippers imply.

[greensleeves]

I agree with Christina ... there are many ways to interpret the doll

Another way to interpret the doll is that she goes from clutching it to her chest to having it hang upside down and seemingly unnoticed... this could symbolize her growing up (setting aside childhood) or it might even symbolize her letting go of a real chance to return to her father's lands.