285 replies to this topic

[Maroucia]

I agree with you guys that a chat about the Hound between Sansa and Shae could kill some of the appeal of the secret bound that Sansa and Sandor share together, but I also wonder how else could the show be able to demonstrate the fact that Sansa misses the Hound and has some regrets about not following him out of the city.
If Sansa tells Shae that the Hound went to her room on the night of the battle to offer her to flee with him, it wouldn’t be that bad. This would be ok to me, but only for that specific matter, I would hate it if Sansa would start to talk of Sandor all the time to Shae!

The worst scenario, to me, would be one that would involve not even a single hint that Sansa still thinks of the Hound.
Now that would kill me!!!  

Anyway, in the long terms, Shae is going to get killed, her knowledge of Sandor’s interest in Sansa would die with her.

[zuziako]

Maroucia, on 30 May 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

I agree with you guys that a chat about the Hound between Sansa and Shae could kill some of the appeal of the secret bound that Sansa and Sandor share together, but I also wonder how else could the show be able to demonstrate the fact that Sansa misses the Hound and has some regrets about not following him out of the city.

She huddles in his cloak. Maybe a dream sequence?

[The Anti-Targ]

Well given in the books to dat the last scene between them in CoK is the last they see of each other I imagine SanSan is pretty well dead.

If Sandor is still alive there's a possibility that he'll hook back up with Sansa and become a devoted dog once more, but with an owner who has genuine affection for him. However Sandor's fated to die while putting his unBrother down methinks.

[Ghosteline]

Since there were so many people here arguing how to interpret SanSan relationship and if Sandor felt the need to simply protect or was there more.... well if you read from the third book how Sandor remembers Sansa, then Im pretty sure theres way more chemistry there.

AND BEWARE HERE COMES A SPOILER! (sorry I don't know how to hide a spoiler )

When The Hound is badly insured and is about to die (well we don't know if he did die or not).. and he asks Arya to kill him... he also begins to blabber about some things he did in the past... and he also starts to sob and I can't remember exacty what he says about Sansa, but it's something like this: "I was just standing there and watched her getting beaten. She never gave me the song, I took the song from her. I meant to take her too, I should have. I should have fucked her before leaving her to that Imp."

Well sure he's is in a pretty bad shape at that moment, when his ready to die. But in my opinion theres more to that relationship.

And I also hate when people worry too much about the age gap. I mean you can't compare SoIaF world to our modern world. In SoIaF almost all the relationships are quite messy and don't quite seem to work together. So I think their chemistry fits very well to this world and I do hope they will meet again in further books.

[SerMixalot]

watched the google author interview with GRRM and he put it nicely, in his medieval setting, there is no adolescence. you are either a child or a woman (or man), so in that sense these sexual type relations make more sense (though obviously creepy withour modern sensibilities)

[Kittykatknits]

I wasn't sure about Shae in season one but she's really grown on me. I understand about wanting to keep her connection a secret but talking to Shae is one of the few methods that can be used to get her feelings across on a tv show. Sansa could say she missed her only chance or something similar without actually using his name. Or, she could wrap herself in his cloak at another point. But otherwise, not sure what can be done.

I still don't think SanSan is dead. In fact, the more I re-watch the scene, the better I feel about it.

[Fragile Bird]

Kittykatknits, on 30 May 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

I wasn't sure about Shae in season one but she's really grown on me. I understand about wanting to keep her connection a secret but talking to Shae is one of the few methods that can be used to get her feelings across on a tv show. Sansa could say she missed her only chance or something similar without actually using his name. Or, she could wrap herself in his cloak at another point. But otherwise, not sure what can be done.

I still don't think SanSan is dead. In fact, the more I re-watch the scene, the better I feel about it.

Lol, I think I'm starting to feel a little better than I did when I first posted the OP.

[Caro99]

Ghosteline, on 30 May 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

When The Hound is badly insured and is about to die (well we don't know if he did die or not).. and he asks Arya to kill him... he also begins to blabber about some things he did in the past... and he also starts to sob and I can't remember exacty what he says about Sansa, but it's something like this: "I was just standing there and watched her getting beaten. She never gave me the song, I took the song from her. I meant to take her too, I should have. I should have fucked her before leaving her to that Imp."
Well sure he's is in a pretty bad shape at that moment, when his ready to die. But in my opinion theres more to that relationship.

And I also hate when people worry too much about the age gap. I mean you can't compare SoIaF world to our modern world. In SoIaF almost all the relationships are quite messy and don't quite seem to work together. So I think their chemistry fits very well to this world and I do hope they will meet again in further books.

i don't mind the age gap either.

@Kittykatknits said, "I still don't think SanSan is dead. In fact, the more I re-watch the scene, the better I feel about it."
the same thing is happening with me! lol, which hopefully is a good thing in the long run.

and then you said this, "but talking to Shae is one of the few methods that can be used to get her feelings across on a tv show. Sansa could say she missed her only chance or something similar without actually using his name. Or, she could wrap herself in his cloak at another point. But otherwise, not sure what can be done."

I'll tak the dream sequence, or wrapping herself in his cloak, or just saying she's lost her only chance of escaping- I would even be happy if they show her still keeping the handkerchief he gave her back in their last scene in S1, just like she's kept Ned's doll. They just need to show that she is thinking of him!

Edited by Caro99, 30 May 2012 - 02:39 PM.

[Kittykatknits]

Caro99, on 30 May 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

i don't mind the age gap either.
& hope this helps: you hide a spoiler like this

Spoiler

write your comment

@Kittykatknits said, "I still don't think SanSan is dead. In fact, the more I re-watch the scene, the better I feel about it."
the same thing is happening with me! lol, which hopefully is a good thing in the long run.

and then you said this, "but talking to Shae is one of the few methods that can be used to get her feelings across on a tv show. Sansa could say she missed her only chance or something similar without actually using his name. Or, she could wrap herself in his cloak at another point. But otherwise, not sure what can be done."

I'll tak the dream sequence, or wrapping herself in his cloak, or just saying she's lost her only chance of escaping- I would even be happy if they show her still keeping the handkerchief he gave her back in their last scene in S1, just like she's kept Ned's doll. They just need to show that she is thinking of him!

I'm really hoping they keep the dream that has him crawling in to her marriage bed the night of LF and Lysa's wedding. I'd love to see her wrapping herself in the cloak too but I don't see that happening. D&D don't seem to do much symbolism in the show, the doll being one of the first examples we have had so far. Maybe. IF we get something, I think Shae is one of the best bets right now. She's the device they have been using all season long to give us Sansa's thoughts. But, I can completely understand why you would not want that to happen.

Regarding SanSan, I read something elsewhere that really changed my perception of the scene between them in Sunday's episode. Someone did a comparison of the scene in the show versus the books and broke down all the symbolism and pointed out that the reason that Sansa did not go with him is because she is not ready to go yet. If you want to read the write up and I'll send you a PM telling you where to see it.

[Maroucia]

Fragile Bird, on 30 May 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Lol, I think I'm starting to feel a little better than I did when I first posted the OP.

Same for me! I found some peace in the last few days. I have now accepted the changes HBO made, even though I'm not entirely satisfied with them.

I’ve finally watched the episode in its whole yesterday, and I really liked it! Sandor had a lot of screen time, which I obliviously appreciated, and the battle was great even though I pictured it with way more wildfire, but I guess it would have been too complicated and expensive for HBO to do it this way. Also, this episode really made me love Stannis who was such a badass in it!
My biggest complaint after the SanSan changes is that Tyrion didn’t loose half of his nose. Only a cut on the face! It's not that I don't like him, but the lost of his nose is an important part of his downfall to me.

But overall, it was an excellent episode.

[Caro99]

Kittykatknits, on 30 May 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I'm really hoping they keep the dream that has him crawling in to her marriage bed the night of LF and Lysa's wedding. I'd love to see her wrapping herself in the cloak too but I don't see that happening. D&D don't seem to do much symbolism in the show, the doll being one of the first examples we have had so far. Maybe. IF we get something, I think Shae is one of the best bets right now. She's the device they have been using all season long to give us Sansa's thoughts. But, I can completely understand why you would not want that to happen.

Regarding SanSan, I read something elsewhere that really changed my perception of the scene between them in Sunday's episode. Someone did a comparison of the scene in the show versus the books and broke down all the symbolism and pointed out that the reason that Sansa did not go with him is because she is not ready to go yet. If you want to read the write up and I'll send you a PM telling you where to see it.

yes please, i'd love to read that! it's my favorite scene in the books, so i want to get why the show changed it so much
& i also want the dream she has of him climbing into her bed. they can leave the tyrion bit off since she would just have escaped that marriage, and if they show her having that dream, it would be just GREAT! also, i'm not sure if it was lyanna stark who mentioned it on the sansa re-read thread, but some believe that the morning when arya leaves the hound to die is the same morning we get of sansa at the eyrie since she woke up startled with her nerves all a tingled or something like that. so if the show has these 2 scenes one after the other, it would be nice to see sansa sensed the hound's pain.

[Maroucia]

Kittykatknits, on 30 May 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I'm really hoping they keep the dream that has him crawling in to her marriage bed the night of LF and Lysa's wedding. I'd love to see her wrapping herself in the cloak too but I don't see that happening. D&D don't seem to do much symbolism in the show, the doll being one of the first examples we have had so far. Maybe. IF we get something, I think Shae is one of the best bets right now. She's the device they have been using all season long to give us Sansa's thoughts. But, I can completely understand why you would not want that to happen.

I couldn’t say that I have that much hope regarding the dream being portrayed as in the book since there is no reason for Sansa to associate the Hound with what happens in bed.

There was no sexual undertone in the show-bedroom scene; Sandor did seem to be attracted by Sansa to some extend, but nothing more. I also doubt that there will be any un-kiss in the show, but who knows, I may be wrong… I hope I am.

As for the dream, we’ll have to wait 2 years to know if HBO will decide to include it, since ASOS in going to be done in two seasons…

Quote

Regarding SanSan, I read something elsewhere that really changed my perception of the scene between them in Sunday's episode. Someone did a comparison of the scene in the show versus the books and broke down all the symbolism and pointed out that the reason that Sansa did not go with him is because she is not ready to go yet. If you want to read the write up and I'll send you a PM telling you where to see it.

I would like to hear from it also!

Edited by Maroucia, 30 May 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[Kittykatknits]

Caro99, on 30 May 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

i'm not sure if it was lyanna stark who mentioned it on the sansa re-read thread, but some believe that the morning when arya leaves the hound to die is the same morning we get of sansa at the eyrie since she woke up startled with her nerves all a tingled or something like that. so if the show has these 2 scenes one after the other, it would be nice to see sansa sensed the hound's pain.

I read that and I think she might be right. I looked at some timelines and it is very possible. The deciding factor is how many days the voyage from KL to the fingers took.

Maroucia, on 30 May 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I couldn’t say that I have that much hope regarding the dream being portrayed as in the book since there is no reason for Sansa to associate the Hound with what happens in bed.

There was no sexual undertone in the show-bedroom scene; Sandor did seem to be attracted by Sansa to some extend, but nothing more. I also doubt that there will be any un-kiss in the show, but who knows, I may be wrong… I hope I am.

As for the dream, we’ll have to wait 2 years to know if HBO will decide to include it, since ASOS in going to be done in two seasons…



I would like to hear from it also!

I gotta have hope!!

A PM for both of you will be sent out in a few minutes.

[Valkyrja]

Kittykatknits, on 30 May 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I read that and I think she might be right. I looked at some timelines and it is very possible. The deciding factor is how many days the voyage from KL to the fingers took.


I gotta have hope!!

A PM for both of you will be sent out in a few minutes.

Me too, please!

[Kittykatknits]

Valkyrja, on 30 May 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Me too, please!

On it's way.

[Caro99]

thanks kittykatknits! off to read it, but not before i tell maroucia that she's right- i hadn't thought off them not including him climbing into her bed since there was no bed undertone in the episode, but maybe if they go for it it would be so odd that people who have not read the books and don't like sansa, while not understanding it thoroughly, would be like, "Wow, little miss perfect is having a dream of the hound in bed!"
but if the bed isn't included i hope they can find another way to convey that she seems him as more than just a protector figure.. the un-kiss may work, but him climbing into bed is nice for me causei see it as a mature older sansa accepting sandor into her bed one day..

Edited by Caro99, 30 May 2012 - 06:46 PM.

[Maroucia]

Caro99, on 30 May 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

thanks kittykatknits! off to read it, but not before i tell maroucia that she's right- i hadn't thought off them not including him climbing into her bed since there was no bed undertone in the episode, but maybe if they go for it it would be so odd that people who have not read the books and don't like sansa, while not understanding it thoroughly, would be like, "Wow, little miss perfect is having a dream of the hound in bed!"
but if the bed isn't included i hope they can find another way to convey that she seems him as more of a protector figure.. the un-kiss may work, but him climbing into bed is nice for me causei see it as a mature older sansa accepting sandor into her bed one day..

Ha!

You do have a point there.
If the bed climbing scene is included in an eventual dream sequence, since there would be no link with the bedroom scene to be made, it would even more come across  as a sexual fantasy on Sansa’s part than it does in the book! I’m just not sure that it’s something that HBO would want to insinuate.
I would love it though!

Edited by Maroucia, 30 May 2012 - 06:35 PM.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

OK so.....I rewatched it again and I have decided that when he says to her "No Little Bird, I wont hurt you"....he meant that he won't hurt her.....by taking her with him.

SO.....my new interpretation was that he decided that "not hurting her" meant leaving her behind, which was why he left.  He LEFT her.

basically, he withdrew the offer.

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

http://www.youtube.c...&feature=relmfu


sigh

[Juliads]

question to the book readers....
After the blackwater battle, when he offers to take her and she declines, is this the last that they see of each other?

and hasn't he actually been killed in the novels, i seem to recall hearing some posters mentioning that...Does that mean we will see the last of him in S3?  Such a great character and talented actor, it would be a shame if they continue to give him abbreviated scenes then kill him off.


and I just have to express my amusement over how many non-book viewers(i gather a growing majority) think that Sansa left with him.  I re-watched the scene, and i don't see any firm inclination that she follows him out that door.  WIshful thinking i suppose.