58 replies to this topic

[I'll pay the iron price]

Yes, the Hound rocked in the Blackwater episode.
Rory Mcann played the part wonderfully!

[camradio]

purely epic, nothing else to say

[Plaguewalker]

I watched Blackwater again last night (I haven't been able to watch the final ep yet...so no spoilers, folks!) and I remembered something that I particularly love about how Rory plays The Hound. Note: this is not fangirl squeeing, just an observation from someone who has both fenced and practiced Northern Shao Lin Kung Fu for years. I don't know if this was his idea or his trainer's or what, but I *love* how he stands "at attention." Soft-knees, toes out. Like an actual warrior ready to fight, not an actor waiting to deliver his next line, standing the way he imagines a big brutal swordsman would stand. Huzzah!

That is all. Carry on.

[Caro99]

The_Spanish_Inquisition, on 02 June 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I have to wonder if Mr. Martin wrote that scene in such a way as to specifically to make Sandor seem more sympathetic. I know he has said that he was surprised that readers felt so deeply connected to Sandor, and that he didn't really intend for him to come across as a heroic figure. I'm curious if reader/viewer opinion of Sandor is changing his opinion or plans for him.

hopefully if by changing his opinion it would mean that he's decided he won't kill him off heroiclly after slaying UnGregor or saving sanas, then i sincerley hope you're right!!

[Valkyrja]

Plaguewalker, on 04 June 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

I watched Blackwater again last night (I haven't been able to watch the final ep yet...so no spoilers, folks!) and I remembered something that I particularly love about how Rory plays The Hound. Note: this is not fangirl squeeing, just an observation from someone who has both fenced and practiced Northern Shao Lin Kung Fu for years. I don't know if this was his idea or his trainer's or what, but I *love* how he stands "at attention." Soft-knees, toes out. Like an actual warrior ready to fight, not an actor waiting to deliver his next line, standing the way he imagines a big brutal swordsman would stand. Huzzah!

That is all. Carry on.

Excellent observation. You've now increased my enjoyment of that episode (I already enjoyed it) immensely!

[juhjoana]

Rpry Mccan, The Hound: a-m-a-z-i-n-g

[Batman]

You can really tell that GRRM wrote this episode. The Hound speaks much more like he does in the books. Strong and fierce and hateful. Plenty of curses

I love Tyrion but it was awesome to see the Hound put him down. Eat shit dwarf, classic

[Elder Sister]

Sandor Clegane has always been my fave ASOIAF character.  Like several have already said, I was a bit disappointed that the Hound's disdain of knighthood and all of the hypocrisy he sees in King's Landing hasn't been brought out more, but that is my only complaint.  Rory McCann is brilliant as the Hound.  I loved him in The Book Group and I love him in GOT.  He's just a fantastic actor.

My favorite moment in the Blackwater episode is immediately after the wildfyre explosion.  The camera pans to where Tyrion, Joff, Hound, and crazy alchemist codger are standing.  The only two people to recognize the enormity of what has just happened are the Hound and Tyrion.  You can see on their faces how horrified they are to witness men burning in the bay...the other two just look thrilled.

I cannot wait to see Rory M. and Maisie Williams in their scenes as Sandor and Arya.  Good times!

Edited by Elder Sister, 11 June 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[Plaguewalker]

Batman, on 11 June 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

You can really tell that GRRM wrote this episode. The Hound speaks much more like he does in the books. Strong and fierce and hateful. Plenty of curses

I love Tyrion but it was awesome to see the Hound put him down. Eat shit dwarf, classic

Agree, but...I wanted more from the Sansa scene. I loved how drunk and unhinged yet vulnerable he was in that scene in the book. You really had a sense what a troubled yet not evil character he was. I thought the tv scene was almost like an afterthought. But yeah, he was terrific overall. Cannot wait for next season when my two faves (Sandor and Arya) get to have their scenes. Those bits by far were my fave interactions of the entire (book) series (tho I've only read through FFC).

[Yvonesan]

BlackTalon, on 28 May 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

And yes, FINALLY the hound gets something resembling real screentime and more than his average three and a half words per season.

  Way too interesting a character to be kept in the background so much of the time. And especially when Rory McCann does such a perfectly wonderful job too. It was such a pleasure to finally see a reasonable amount of screen time for the Hound and I'm so glad that it was GRRM handling the script.

[Valkyrja]

Plaguewalker, on 11 June 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Agree, but...I wanted more from the Sansa scene. I loved how drunk and unhinged yet vulnerable he was in that scene in the book. You really had a sense what a troubled yet not evil character he was. I thought the tv scene was almost like an afterthought. But yeah, he was terrific overall. Cannot wait for next season when my two faves (Sandor and Arya) get to have their scenes. Those bits by far were my fave interactions of the entire (book) series (tho I've only read through FFC).

Totally, agree, Plaguewalker. I dearly wish the Sansa bedroom scene could have been more like it was in the books -- it is one of the most memorable scenes with the Hound for me (out of many), especially from ACoK. It is also one of my favourite scenes from that book, so I may be biased.

I think the only reason GRRM didn't write that scene (or any of the Hound's scenes in that episode) to be closer to how it was in the book is that the Hound's character in general has been majorly toned down for the Tv series. This is most unfortunate, as Rory McCann's audition tape for the role had him playing a version of the Hound that was MUCH closer to the books (more angry, etc.), so we know that he could have done it easily. It was the other writers and the showrunners who chose to change the Hound's personality from angry and raging to a calmer, toned down version who doesn't even mention anything cynical about knights (*sadface* because the whole true knighthood concept is one of my favourite themes running through the series). I'm not sure why they chose to portray him this way, other than perhaps some silly need to make him seem more 'sympathetic'? Ah well. Sadly, though, this meant that GRRM had to write the tv!Hound in the Blackwater to be as close as possible to his version of the Hound and yet still make sense within the framework (or lack thereof) that they had already set during the previous episodes. This is why the Sansa scene seemed so lacking in comparison with the positively *explosive* scene in the book --- TV! Hound was quieter and calmer all around, so was subsequently quieter and calmer about deserting during the battle. Yes, he was scared of the fire, but he was shown to just sort of calmly stroll out of there. TV!Hound  was similarly never angry and raging to Sansa in the (sadly few) previous scenes they'd shared, and so to make him suddenly explode like that in the final scene would have seemed, of all things (absurdly, to us book readers)...out of character.

This but one of many examples from the second season of GoT where the tv!character seemed so changed as to almost be like totally different character. (Sorry to sound like a book purist but given that some of these characters have been near and dear to my heart for over a decade now, I can't really help it.)

Edited by Valkyrja, 16 June 2012 - 08:48 PM.

[Yvonesan]

Valkyrja, on 16 June 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

I think the only reason GRRM didn't write that scene (or any of the Hound's scenes in that episode) to be closer to how it was in the book is that the Hound's character in general has been majorly toned down for the Tv series. This is most unfortunate, as Rory McCann's audition tape for the role had him playing a version of the Hound that was MUCH closer to the books (more angry, etc.), so we know that he could have done it easily. It was the other writers and the showrunners who chose to change the Hound's personality from angry and raging to a calmer, toned down version who doesn't even mention anything cynical about knights (*sadface* because the whole true knighthood concept is one of my favourite themes running through the series). I'm not sure why they chose to portray him this way, other than perhaps some silly need to make him seem more 'sympathetic'? Ah well. Sadly, though, this meant that GRRM had to write the tv!Hound in the Blackwater to be as close as possible to his version of the Hound and yet still make sense within the framework (or lack thereof) that they had already set during the previous episodes. This is why the Sansa scene seemed so lacking in comparison with the positively *explosive* scene in the book --- TV! Hound was quieter and calmer all around, so was subsequently quieter and calmer about deserting during the battle. Yes, he was scared of the fire, but he was shown to just sort of calmly stroll out of there. TV!Hound  was similarly never angry and raging to Sansa in the (sadly few) previous scenes they'd shared, and so to make him suddenly explode like that in the final scene would have seemed, of all things (absurdly, to us book readers)...out of character.

It makes me wonder what the non-readers made of it  ...Sansa voices her recognition that the Hound won't hurt her but did the Hound ever really give the impression that he might hurt her (to non-readers) in the scene? We know what happens in the original scene but as you say Valkyrja, tv!Hound was a lot calmer than his troubled counterpart in the book. I think GRRM still gave us the same outcome from it on screen i.e. the Hound never intended to hurt Sansa and Sansa comes to realize this; she's the only one he came to after the battle where he can just be himself and to reveal that he's leaving; he offers her the only real protection that she's ever had since her father died (although Sansa doesn't realize it), an escape from the dangerous plots in KL (life with LF/Tyrion don't ever truly do this).

[wonder1859]

Yvonesan, on 28 July 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

It makes me wonder what the non-readers made of it  ...Sansa voices her recognition that the Hound won't hurt her but did the Hound ever really give the impression that he might hurt her (to non-readers) in the scene? We know what happens in the original scene but as you say Valkyrja, tv!Hound was a lot calmer than his troubled counterpart in the book. I think GRRM still gave us the same outcome from it on screen i.e. the Hound never intended to hurt Sansa and Sansa comes to realize this; she's the only one he came to after the battle where he can just be himself and to reveal that he's leaving; he offers her the only real protection that she's ever had since her father died (although Sansa doesn't realize it), an escape from the dangerous plots in KL (life with LF/Tyrion don't ever truly do this).

Speaking as a viewer-before-reader, not in that scene in general, but I think it was set up to show she might've had reason to fear him. Specifically:

1.) The scene where he leers at her when he comes to fetch her after Ned has been arrested.
2.) The way he steps toward her when he says, "No, it gives me joy to kill people."

Sandor's a very large, intimidating, and scary looking guy. And though they've mellowed him out for the show, they also cut the few scenes in ACoK that were so integral to their dynamic and their budding sense of trust in each other. Also keep in mind that Cersei had just been regaling Sansa with stories of what happens when men get their blood up in battle. So, yeah, she had reason to be afraid when she retreats to what should be a safe place for her to discover this huge scary drunk guy splattered with blood and gore hiding out in her room.

I don't know if it's been mentioned but I got a interesting vibe from the delivery of Sansa's line, "You won't hurt me." It's not only a recognition of sorts on her part, but also like she's reminding him that he won't hurt her. Sort of "I know you're a BAMF and you get off on killing people, but there's nothing in you that ever will purposely hurt me. Immirite?"

Does that make sense?

[Juliads]

I just wonder what they are going to have the Hound rambling on about in Season three during his travels.  It might come across odd or out of character to have him speak almost obsessively over his "little bird"  since the tv show removed almost all traces of his feelings for Sansa, dammit...

I was also a viewer-before-reader, and i found this site already wondering what the connection, if any, was between Sansa and the hound.  Whatever the tv show removed, it left enough to allow viewers to sense something was building between them.   The outcome of tv bedroom scene was the same as the original, but i personally found the book version to be much more memorable and very touching.  Feeling his tears in the dark, so sad...

[Yvonesan]

Thanks for the non-reader opinions, good to hear them! I suppose a guy waiting for you in your room in the dark (never mind a member of the Kingsguard in Westeros with more than just a reputation for killing) is reason enough to be afraid. It's still interesting to hear how it came across to those for the first time when compared to the original scene in the book.

wonder1859, on 29 July 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

I don't know if it's been mentioned but I got a interesting vibe from the delivery of Sansa's line, "You won't hurt me." It's not only a recognition of sorts on her part, but also like she's reminding him that he won't hurt her. Sort of "I know you're a BAMF and you get off on killing people, but there's nothing in you that ever will purposely hurt me. Immirite?" Does that make sense?

Yes. I don't believe he'd have hurt her, especially since he's offering his protection in taking her with him to bring her home but I think the recognition on Sansa's part that he won't hurt her and her voicing it aloud is important in the timing of it. She says it to him after he has just reacted to her belief that Stannis won't hurt her, with him trying to get it into her head that everyone around her is a killer and she has to get used to that fact and work out who she can trust because of it. The "you won't hurt me" comment is virtually as good as an admission that she knows she can trust him with her life.

Juliads, on 29 July 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

I just wonder what they are going to have the Hound rambling on about in Season three during his travels. It might come across odd or out of character to have him speak almost obsessively over his "little bird" since the tv show removed almost all traces of his feelings for Sansa, dammit...

I'm anxious over how they proceed with it too. And not just in relation to Sansa either, I don't want him to be dismissed as an important less-than-major character or his scenes relegated to almost non-existent compared to the book. He's too unique a character to do that fairly. A significant part of his journey with Arya in S3 does reveal his regrets and concerns over his "little bird" and I can't imagine that it will do the story any justice to remove that. Especially considering what happens to the Hound at that very point towards the end of season, if it's to pan out similar to the book story. If the scriptwriters don't care much about his character though, they could very well not give much attention to the story he does have. Let's hope this won't be the case. It's one thing I almost hate that GRRM does i.e. make you care so much about characters even without their own POVs!

[wonder1859]

Yvonesan, on 30 July 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

I'm anxious over how they proceed with it too. And not just in relation to Sansa either, I don't want him to be dismissed as an important less-than-major character or his scenes relegated to almost non-existent compared to the book. He's too unique a character to do that fairly. A significant part of his journey with Arya in S3 does reveal his regrets and concerns over his "little bird" and I can't imagine that it will do the story any justice to remove that. Especially considering what happens to the Hound at that very point towards the end of season, if it's to pan out similar to the book story. If the scriptwriters don't care much about his character though, they could very well not give much attention to the story he does have. Let's hope this won't be the case. It's one thing I almost hate that GRRM does i.e. make you care so much about characters even without their own POVs!

This is my fear, because they pretty much decimated the Sansa/Sandor dynamic in the second season. I understand the need to dial down the Hound's more OTT behavior for the screen (else they risk him coming across as unlikeable and psychotic as Joff) but they could've written S/S scenes in such a way as to convey the impact these two characters have on each other without the problematic aspects of the book scenes (swords to throats and so on). That they chose not to include most of S/S's book scenes leads me to believe they don't see Sandor as a very important character in the story they're wanting to tell. I hope I'm wrong but I'm preparing myself for the possibility that Arya and Sandor's road trip will be drastically different than what was on the page.

[Yvonesan]

I'll be trying to prepare myself for that possibility next season too.  I agree with what you say... I think GRRM did a good job in his episode last season considering what had already been done to Sandor Clegane (and Sansa) but I couldn't help but get the impression that the Hound's story was overall being relegated to insignificant on screen. I find that very difficult to accept when the character is so interesting AND the actor playing him is so good and fits the part so well.

[TheRedPriest]

GRRM really gone into The Hound's depths on this one.

Also, the acting was great, he fights so desperatly, you feel his terror.

And the scene with Bronn was worth the episode by itself...

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

I am hoping the positive viewer response to the Hound's presence will finally convince DnD what a gem they have with Rory Mccann as the Hound and finally bring his character to the forefront next season with Arya.

As they've already butchered the SanSan bits.....are they going to completely cut out Sansa's fantasy that he kissed her that night?  Multiple chapters have her dwelling on an event that never happened.....which makes me wonder if that will be addressed in the show.

With the scenes as they stand currently, it doesn't make sense for her to be repeatedly thinking back to him kissing her