124 replies to this topic

[Rose of Winterfell]

Whether people believe Barristan, that Ashara's child died stillborn, or think her child is alive and well somewhere, I was curious as to who most people think 'dishonoured' her.

Some suggestions (based on who was present at the Harrenhal tourney, and she is known to have come into contact with and who we can infer she might have had contact with at some point, given her status as Elia's friend):

Brandon Stark
Ned Stark
Benjen Stark
Oberyn Martell
Ser Barristan
Ser Arthur Dayne (eww)
Ser Oswell Whent
Ser Gerold Hightower
Ser Lewyn Martell
Ser Jon Darry
Rhaegar Targaryen
Jon Connington
Aerys Targaryen
Howland Reed (who apparently watched her closely when she was dancing)

Note: I included all of the Kingsguard who were present because she apparently danced with a white cloak, but we don't know which one.

Personally I lean towards the assumption that it was Brandon Stark, but I also think Mad Aerys is up there as a candidate (mainly because there are theories about a divide in the KG between those who were most loyal to Aerys and those who wanted Rhaegar to take action against him-if Aerys had gotten his sister pregnant, this would provide Arthur with pretty strong motivation for wanting Aerys removed from power).

[Lady Hodor]

Brandon Stark. It is known.
He was bold and brash and likely horny, whereas Ned never acted in such ways.
It must have been a Stark, else the rumours would have sprouted foolishly.
Likley Ashara let slip the name "Stark" from her bedroom, and they named Ned in attempts to dishonour the one man of utter honour.
But really it was more a Brandon thing to do to "deflower" Ashara and not give a damn about the outcome.

[Pellaeon]

Ned Stark, this is known

Edited by Pellaeon, 29 May 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Valkyrja]

I would have said Ned prior to reading ADwD, but after Lady Dustin's account of Brandon......I am definitely leaning towards Brandon.

[Alric Stark]

Ned Stark, my guess is Ned and Ashara were in love, but once the Rebellion was in full swing and Ned was promised to Cat he was forced to marry for Duty rather then love.

[PSHorton]

Brandon

[Faint]

Brandon Stark is my best guess and if the child is alive my best guess would be Darkstar.

[Valkyrja]

Faint, on 29 May 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Brandon Stark is my best guess and if the child is alive my best guess would be Darkstar.

Can't believe I didn't think of that possibility.....though I have no idea if/how the timeline would fit?

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Brandon Stark, for sure. Not Ned, please no.

[Winterlord]

Barristan.  Come on.  Barristan...White cloak.  Barry White. "You're the First, the Last, My Everything".

Alright, just kidding.  I leaned toward Oberyn with no real cause until ADWD, now I am in with Team Brandon.

[lojzelote]

With the information we´ve got in aDwD, I would say Brandon Stark.
I don´t think that Ned had it in him to conceive a child out of wedlock. Also, how come he doesn´t spare Ashara a single thought? Not even after Cersei´s outburst in the godswood where she asks him if Ashara commited suicide because he stole their bastard. If he supposedly loved her and/or had a bastard by her, wouldn´t she come to his mind immediately? Unless GRRM awfully slipped, I don´t think there is a possibility. Hell, Catelyn thinks about Ashara several times.
I guess that the others are more or less possible choices, but they would be random, imo.

[Maxpey]

Winterlord, on 29 May 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Barristan.  Come on.  Barristan...White cloak.  Barry White. "You're the First, the Last, My Everything".

Alright, just kidding.  I leaned toward Oberyn with no real cause until ADWD, now I am in with Team Brandon.

Who "dishonored" Ashara is an interesting mystery.
Based upon inferences I have drawn from the text, I believe that Ned and Ashara had romantic feelings for each other.
Thus, I don't think it was Ned who "dishonored" Ashara at Harrenhall.

I also question the meaning of "dishonored."  Can we really just assume that it meant she had intercourse with a man who then refused to marry her, or could she have been "dishonored" in some other way?

I also don't think the stillborn child she allegedly had could have been the result of her being "dishonored" at Harrenhall because of the timeline.  

Harrenhall occurred roughly one year before Robert's Rebellion. Thus, Ashara's child would have been stillborn 3 months before the rebellion started.

Also, Robert's rebellion lasted roughly 1 year.  Further, the fight at the TOJ between Ned and the KG happened at the end of the rebellion.  
Finally, we know that Ashara was alive and well at Starfall when Ned Stark traveled there to return Dawn to the Dayne family. It was not until Ned left that Ashara allegedly killed herself.

Thus, her child was (allegedly) stillborn 15 months before she supposedly killed herself by jumping out of a tower into the sea.

Edited by Maxpey, 29 May 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[Valyrian Spoon]

Considering other characters descriptions of Brandon Stark I think he is the most likely candidate.

[Bubbles]

I put my bets on Brandon Stark as well, and i do believe that her baby is alive but i dont think its Darkstar. I think he is too old for it...cause the baby would as old as Dany, right? And that is a bit older than Jon and Robb.

How old is Darkstar anyway? I doubt that the most dangerous man in Dorne is 17 year old boy....

[Daughter of Dragons]

I'd put my money on Brandon Stark as well. Based on what we know of him, he seems like the most likely candidate.

[adreamer]

Never tought it was Ned, but after ADWD I think it's Brandon.

[Valyrian Spoon]

I think you can take Jon Connington off the list of potential fathers. I think he only had eyes for Rhaegar.

[Winterfell is Burning]

There's nothing to suggest it was Brandon, except for the fact he slept with one woman. And if Ashara killed herself with grief shortly after her child died, the timeline doesn't fit, because she died after the war was over, long after Brandon died.

And, of course, two minor characters long dead before the story starts having a stillborn child is not a big revelation, it's just meh.

Everything points to Ned, who is big enough of cours, and makes Ashara storyline tragic: she falls in love with this noble Northern lord, gets pregnant (and frankly, hanging out with Robert for so long and in such a young age, it's not out of the question for Ned to not be a virgin at time of the marriage) but then war comes and they are in opposite sides. The child is stillborn, and when Ned meets her again, he's married to someone else (because he had to), has another bastard with him (not his, but she doesn't know that), and just killed her brother (in self-defense), so she kills herself.

Plus, it makes a parallel to Robb's storyline: both Ned and Robb go to war to avenge their fathers, both are forced to marry Riverlands ladies to win support, both fall in love with girls on the enemy's side; Ned chooses duty and wins the war, later on has many children and a great marriage, Robb chooses love and suffers a tragic fate.

[alienarea]

Aerys Targaryen.

As stated above, that would explain why Rhaegar wanted to change things after the Trident, why Arthur Dayne sided with Rhaegar instead of his king, and why Lyanna was at the ToJ with the 3 KG. And why Arthur couldn't properly explain the KG being there to Ned.

[Artos Stark]

Brandon