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[BOOK SPOILERS] Tyrion and the Kingsguard

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#1 TheEvilKing


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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:34 AM

When I first watched the ep I assumed it was Ser Meryn that attacked Tyrion, and not Ser Mandon like in the books.

However, now I'm 90% convinced that it was Ser Mandon Moore. Also, I believe it was Joffrey that ordered the attack in the TV show.

Joffrey name-dropped Ser Mandon in a recent episode. Then, in this episode, when the Hound quits the battlefield Joffrey asks the two Kingsguarders to go out there and fight on his behalf. He names them Ser Mandon and Ser Boros. He also mentions Ser Mandon again shortly afterwards when he asks him to bear the King's banner.

Also the Kingsguard who attacks Tyrion wears a helmet so that you cannot see his face.

I think in the next ep we'll see Ser Meryn still alive and kicking and beating up little girls.

Why do I think it was Joff that ordered the attack? A couple of quotes from His Grace:

"Next time you kiss my sword it will be wearing my uncle's blood." He then goes on to talk about Stannis, so that's far from definitive, but...

"Ser Mandon, Ser Boros, you will represent me on the battlefield." Very precise wording there, and this is GRRM who wrote the episode. Ser Mandon then goes on to try and kill Tyrion.

I'll also note that in the books, Tyrion thinks Cersei tries to have him killed, but he doesn't have any real evidence as far as I can remember. So this isn't really a change. Also I'll note again that GRRM wrote the ep.

#2 ChillinLikeSerIlyn



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Posted 29 May 2012 - 12:49 PM

This was something the show didn't do a great job of. From what I can tell from reading posts from non-readers, most think it was Ser Meryn if they even realized it was a Kingsguard member at all. It was Ser Mandon, but the show did a poor job of setting up his character. IMO, they should have made Mandon the one who Tyrion threatens in the previous episode (instead of Meryn) so viewers would be more clear.

Edited by ChillinLikeAnIlyn, 29 May 2012 - 12:50 PM.

#3 Mediumjon Umber

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:01 PM

It was definitely Mandon Moore who tried to kill Tyrion. Unless he shaved since we last saw him, Trant has a dark mustache and stubble and he's a lot shorter.

Slightly off topic, but was I the only one who thought Moore looked pretty deformed under the helmet? Or was the helmet and lighting playing me a trick? :P

#4 Tourniquet


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Posted 29 May 2012 - 01:22 PM

Ser Mandon was finally mentioned by Cersei a few episodes back when she orders him to fetch Ros who she presumes to be Tyrion's whore.

#5 The Last Reyne

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:41 AM

I agree it was Mandon Moore and that it was Joffrey who ordered it. Cersei may have hated Tyrion, but she would never attack him directly.She would have gone after those close to him as she tried to do when she went after Ros. Cersei is smart enough to realize the consequences of having to face her father if she had ordered the death of her brother. Joffrey on the other hand is not smart enough and this just the kind of stupid and childish act one can expect from good King Joffrey.

#6 Reposado


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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:56 AM

definitely was mandon. for one, it doesn't appear that meryn trant was near the battlements. more importantly, they're not going to off the one kingsguard that they give all speaking lines to. (besides, hound, jaime barristan obv) not when they can drop a name and still have the role played by a featured extra.

if they killed off meryn trant, it would mean casting a balon swann or a mandon moore for next season, when they can just keep giving speaking parts to meryn trant.

#7 Zappotack



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Posted 02 June 2012 - 08:50 AM

I think it was Cersei who ordered the attack its been shown over and over her rage toward Tyrion about Myrcella and regarding Joffrey Fighting. And Joffrey was terrified and left command to Tyrion so theres no reason for Joffrey to have him executed at that time.

#8 Lord Varys

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:47 AM

As in the books, the assassination attempt on Tyrion is still a riddle. GRRM did not give us more hints in his script than he did in the book. In fact, the way Joffy was portrayed in 'Blackwater' strongly indicates that he was not behind Ser Mandon. And Cersei, well, she actually confirms that she is not behind it when she drunkenly says to Sansa 'if my wretched brother prevails...'. If Cersei had ordered Tyrion's death she would be damn sure he would not survive the battle!

And considering Cersei's chapters in AFfC and ADwD it is save to say that she had nothing to do with it (at least in the books). Which would leave the usual suspects:

1. Varys, who would have little/no motive (neither in the books nor in the show, since in both it's somewhat indicated that he intends to recruit Tyrion into his camp).

2. Joffrey: Technically he would have a motive, but it feels not alright, and it would also cause a problem to reveal the truth since now both Joffrey and Ser Mandon are dead.

3. Littlefinger: He is the likeliest candidate for a number of reason: He is the only one with a possible connection to Moore (both are from the Vale of Arryn). He is the one character who wants to get rid of Tyrion after he came back alive from the Vale and knows that he was behind that dagger thing (that's why Littlefinger chose Tyrion as scapegoat for Joffrey's murder). And it's also his confirmed modus operandi to have people killed while he himself is not present.

4. Ser Mandon acted alone, feeling that this Hand of the King posed a threat to his king. Actually, the way it's shown in the series this may actually be quite likely. And it would still be a possibility in the books as well.

But I concur that this was poorly set up in the series. They should have introduced the KG and Ser Mandon to the audience earlier, and they should also have shown us about this Littlefinger-Tyrion-enmity. By, say, show us Tyrion investigating Littlefinger's affairs as Master of Coin, or Littlefinger complain to Ros about this new dwarf hand instead of this stupid pimp-intimidates-prostitute-scene.

#9 Dornish Hen

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:56 PM

"Next time you kiss my sword it will be wearing my uncle's blood." He then goes on to talk about Stannis, so that's far from definitive, but...

"Ser Mandon, Ser Boros, you will represent me on the battlefield." Very precise wording there, and this is GRRM who wrote the episode. Ser Mandon then goes on to try and kill Tyrion.

When I first heard Joffrey talk about his Uncle's blood I thought he was talking about Tyrion! Then I remembered that Stannis is also his uncle. But it could go either way if you believe that Joffrey was the one who ordered the hit on Tyrion.

There is also a little look on Joffrey's face after he commanded the Ser Mandon and Ser Blount to represent him. I couldn't figure out if it was a side glance at Tyrion, or a sheepish look of shame because he was leaving the battle. When I first watched the episode, my first reaction was that it was Joffrey who was behind the plot.

#10 I'll pay the iron price

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:11 AM

Well now we know the TV show hasnt gone with the nose hacked off plot!

#11 A Bong of Ice and Fire

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 03:33 PM

It had to have been Cersei. Joffrey is scared shitless and is depending on his uncle Tyrion to command. Cersei NEEDS to kill Tyrion, and she's already very fatalistic about the battle's outcome.

Joffrey hopes Tyrion will lead them to victory; Cersei knows he won't.

#12 Jaqen Hghar

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 06:51 AM

I have to admit I didn't even realise it was a King's Guard member until now that I read it here; I watched the episode yesterday and read the book sometime in July/August so I had sort of forgotten that part of the plot...

At this point I feel that I have to address something that's been bothering me a long time - the representation of the King's Guard in the show sucks! It's made clear in the books that the King's Guard wear all white - white tunics, white armour, the lot. Why hasn't the showmakers bothered to make that easy effort which would have made the King's Guard members so much easier to spot in the mess of armour, clothes and people that is often on screen?

Edited by Jaqen Hghar, 19 March 2013 - 06:52 AM.