Do you believe Aegon?
Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:45 AM
Personally, I've been rooting for him from almost the moment we first learned that he might really be Aegon.
My question is, why? Don't people around here believe his claim of identity? Did I miss something crucial?
Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:04 AM
A lot of people perceive him as the mummers dragon in Dany's vision at the House of the Dying.
We're given a lot of Blackfyre history in the books and The Golden Company vows to never break a contract unless there is a Blackfyre heir to the throne, yet they all take up Aegon's plight.
I tend to agree that he's fake Because of the reasons above, but also that it seems to convenient for him to all the sudden show up 5 books deep.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:07 AM
Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:18 AM
How did Varys know that Gregor was going to bash the baby's head in to make him unrecognizable? If Gregor hadn't done so, the supposed switched baby would have been recognized, because the Targaryens have some distinct features.
My take on this: Gregor killed the real baby Aegon, but since he smashed his head in, Varys saw this as an opportunity. He and Illyrio now claim to have saved the baby, which is very beneficial to them - they have a claimant for the Iron Throne. They lied to Lord Jon, who believed them because he hadn't seen the real baby.
The Golden Company
The Golden Company is a mercenary band formed by Bittersteel, a Blackfyre pretender who was exiled from Westeros. His goal was to return to Westeros and put a Blackfyre on the Iron Throne. After Bittersteel died, their new captain general was Maelys the Monstorous, the last Blackfyre pretender. After his death, they started taking contracts from the cities of Essos. They are one of the biggest mercenary companies in Essos, and have never broken a contract. During AFfC, we learn that they've broken their contract with Myr for no apparent reason. In ADwD, we learn that Illyrio has hired the Golden Company, and later we see the Golden Company swear fealty to Lord Jon and Young Griff. Why would they swear to fight for a Targaryen, when the Company, since it's formation has fought against Targaryens?
Maelys wasn't the last Blackfyre. Young Griff is his descendant. Illyrio and Varys learned of this, and wanted to use it in their advantage. They gave the boy to Lord Jon, who couldn't know if he was real or not, he hadn't seen the baby before. Illyrio was a middleman between Young Griff and the GC ( there are even theories that Illyrio is a Blackfyre himself ). So, learning that there was still a Blackfyre pretender, the GC broke their contract with Myr and started preparing for a war with Westeros like in the days of Maelys. And Illyrio says it himself: " Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood " .
And there are also some smaller pointers, which could be false, but are still worth looking at.
Quaithe warns Danny that there will be a " mummer's dragon " . The Blackfyre sigil is also a dragon, so she could be pointing to that or to someone who was " made " a dragon by Varys and Illyrio - the mummers.
Quaithe warns her not to trust any of these: The Kraken and the Dark Flame ( Victarion and Moqorro ) , the Lion ( Lannisters ), the Griffin ( Lord Jon ), the Sun's son ( Quentyn ) and at last, the mummer's dragon, Young Griff. If he's real why would Quaithe warn Danny to treat him the same way she would treat her enemies?
Edited by Alex Baratheon, 30 May 2012 - 05:23 AM.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:46 AM
The raising a perfect king is a fairytale and this is asoiaf, the bubble will burst so I wouldn't get your hopes up too high. I don't think he'll survive the series.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:22 AM
Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:17 PM
Also: Varys' speech about Aegon VI the Saint in the epilogue could mean only one of two things (and possibly both): Aegon is a fake or he's a dead man walking.
Edited by mcb, 30 May 2012 - 05:49 PM.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:22 PM
Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:24 PM
Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:34 PM
Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:45 PM
He's just too convenient to be genuine.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:07 PM
Quaithe knows her shit
Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:40 PM
I agree with the person who said that 'raising the perfect king' is a fairytale......indeed. It is the King Arthur story all over again. I don't see GRRM ever being *that* straightforward.
All the Blackfyre evidence is extremely compelling, but I must admit that I didn't even think of that when I first was reading ADwD. What *really* stood out to me was more character-related: Young Griff's 'temper tantrum' to Tyrion after losing the game of cyvasse; Young Griff suddenly acting even more brashly and arrogantly towards Jon Connington after deciding to reveal himself as Aegon; and also, Jon Connington's near-obsessive love of Rhaegar. I felt, surely, that GRRM was showing us a man who was not only tragically dying of greyscale, but also who was so in love with Rhaegar's memory and the need to redeem himself towards Rhaegar, that he would believe what he wanted to believe about Young Griff.
I think Young Griff believes he is Aegon, and for now, so does Jon Connington. I don't think Young Griff is a bad kid, but the thing is.....he seems to act like *such* a kid still. And yet, throughout ADwD we have the storyline of Jon Snow (as Lord Snow) telling himself to 'kill the boy and let the man be born', and showing the difficulties when experiencing an actual leadership position. In contrast, while Young Griff seems to know his history well enough, he has not had practical experience thus far, and yet he is even older than both Dany and Jon Snow at this point.
Then, there is the fact that I find it extremely difficult to sympathize with Young Griff himself. I found myself more interested in the various people surrounding him in those chapters: Jon Connington, Septa Lemore (whoever she is), Duck, the Half-Maester, etc.
I just get the feeling that Jon Connington is an extremely tragic figure......even *if* Young Griff IS Aegon.....I could see Jon C. accidentally giving Greyscale to him or something..
Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:54 PM
Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:37 PM
Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:51 PM
There's a lot of discussion about his legitimacy here, but I don't think anyone in Westeros really seems to give a fuck about that anymore so it's pretty much irrelevant. I'd say an analysis into what kind of leader he's shown himself to be is far more telling.
Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:03 PM
Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:34 PM