89 replies to this topic

[Vandalism]

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Tyrion 'killed' Lady Joanna, Cersei's mother and Tywin's wife. A dwarf, a horrendous one, killed her and that's why they hate him so much. It's more common than you think.
And, i thought Asha thought Theon died in the sack of Winterfell? That's what I read in AFFC at least. She had to tell her mother that Theon died. She saw him again after Theon escaped from Ramsay Bolton, didn't recognize him at first and was distressed when she saw what Bolton did to Theon. So, of course she didn't think about what happens at the Dreadfort, simply because she doesn't know.
I really like Asha. (:

How can a post be so extremely short sighted and unreasonable? I'm referring to the first part of it, concerning Tyrion. Did you really just say he killed Lady Joanna and hence Cersei is right to hate him?

If you were being sarcastic, then no prob. And about Asha, do you forget what she did at Pyke?

[Winter's Knight]

Vandalism, on 01 June 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

How can a post be so extremely short sighted and unreasonable? I'm referring to the first part of it, concerning Tyrion. Did you really just say he killed Lady Joanna and hence Cersei is right to hate him?

If you were being sarcastic, then no prob. And about Asha, do you forget what she did at Pyke?

It is actually a rather common reaction. Keep in mind that Cersei was very young when her mother died,  was not taught or told differently by her father and -unlike Jaime- was probably kept cloistered and very  probably had a lonely childhood and suffered much from not having a mother figure.

What did Asha do at Pyke? She engaged in some unkind harassment of the brother she barely knew and who, in her eyes, wanted to waltz in and take her place as Balon's successor even though she's  been training for it and has been fighting for the Iron Isles all these years.

Mind, I may not agree with the character's actions but their feelings are understandable.

[lojzelote]

I think it depends on what you consider "close".

Arya and Jon certainly had a close relationship, and it seems to me that Robb and Jon were fairly close, too.
I would say that Bran idolized both Robb and Jon, but the age difference was too big to play with them (at least in later years) or share his thoughts with them.
I would expect Bran to be close to Arya as she is closest to him in age and a tomboy, but they don't think about each other much, surprisingly. Although, Bran mistook Lyanna and Benjen for him and Arya, so they must have played swords together at some point. (I will probably never get how Bran could confuse himself with Benjen when Benjen has dark brown hair and Bran auburn. Maybe his auburn hair is so dark that the colour is hard to get right? )
I didn't get impression that Bran and Rickon had been close, either. Bran thinks about Rickon more as his "baby brother", than as his playmate. Rickon is younger by four years and his temperament is completely different, and he seems to enjoy company of wild, lively boys such as he is. He prefered Walder Freys to Bran and the Reeds, so I don't think it was only about Bran's movability.
For that matter, I wonder if Rickon will be able to remember any of his siblings, except for Bran, who stuck around him for the longest time. He was just so young when the rest left Winterfell.
On the other hand, I think Bran got along very well with Sansa. Again, I woudn't say "close", but they both loved chivalry (Bran wanted to become a knight) and it has always seemed to me they were Catelyn's favourites.
I don't know about Sansa. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it appears she was closer to Jeyne Poole than her brothers and sisters. I think she had good relationship with both Bran and Robb, and she probably liked to be around Rickon when he had been a cute baby. About her and Arya, well, I think that deep inside, they love each other very much, but they just have almost nothing in common and get on each others nerves regularly.
Sansa and Jon easily had the coldest relationship, imo. Not that they woudn't care what happens to the other, but as others said, they had no common interest, they probably saw each other little and Sansa had been very conscious of the fact that Jon is a bastard because she listened to Catelyn's lessons about proper lady-like behaviour. But they had to interact from time to time (I wonder how the conversation about what girls like came up. )
Robb and Arya are an interesting case. I agree, they don't seem to be close. But why?

Overall, I think the Stark children bonded well enough. Compare them to Robert, Stannis and Renly, Viserys and Dany, Theon and Asha, Theon and his older brothers, Tyrion and Cersei, messed up Cersei and Jaime, Tyrion and Jaime (at this point of time), Arriane and Quentyn didn't know each other, the same for Quentyn and Trystane, the age discrepancy between Arianne and Trystane is too great, Catelyn and Lysa, who was probably always jealous of her, . . .
If they have bastardborn siblings, they probably don't even know they exist (and don't care about it).

Aside of the Stark children, the good relationship probably have Tommen and Myrcella, the Tyrells, the older generation of the Lannisters and probably the older generation of the Starks (Although, Eddard was probably cut off from the others, as he left the North at early age. I agree that there was something going on between him and Brandon).

Edited by lojzelote, 01 June 2012 - 05:34 AM.

[ARYa_Nym]

Bushido, on 31 May 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Jon is de facto jealous of everything because he is bastard... Sansa says the same,the boy can't have  an opinion without  someone would retorting -nah,you are bastard,just jealous - It means nothing. Robb states in SoS that Jon and Theon are not the same to him.

I don't think he valued Theon over Jon. I think that they may have competed because Jon and Theon didn't like each other so they probably didn't hang out with Robb simultaneously. Theon ignored Jon and Jon was probably hostile towards him so it would have been very awkward.


Anyways, I think Arya and Bran may have been competitive with each other. When he thought that she was Lyanna he notes that Arya never beat him at swords. Arya showed discontent about Bran being able to go hunting with Ned because he was boy and she couldn't even though she was older. & when Ned told her that Bran could be a king's councilor, build castles, and be a High Septon she asked if she could do those things too and he said no that she will marry a king and maybe her sons can do that.

When Arya was in KL she also wished for her brothers because she was lonely and had no one to talk to.

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“”That was when Arya missed her brothers the most. She wanted tease Bran and play with baby Rickon and have Robb smile at her. She wanted Jon to muss up her hair and call her “little sister” and finish her sentences with her…She had no one left but Sansa, and Sansa wouldn’t even talk to her unless Father made her.”

I could be wrong but I don't remember Bran thinking about his sisters the way he thinks about Jon and Robb.He mentioned Arya twice in ADWD because Lyanna and Leaf.

lojzelote, on 01 June 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

I think it depends on what you consider "close".

Arya and Jon certainly had a close relationship, and it seems to me that Robb and Jon were fairly close, too.
I would say that Bran idolized both Robb and Jon, but the age difference was too big to play with them (at least in later years) or share his thoughts with them.
I would expect Bran to be close to Arya as she is closest to him in age and a tomboy, but they don't think about each other much, surprisingly. Although, Bran mistook Lyanna and Benjen for him and Arya, so they must have played swords together at some point. (I will probably never get how Bran could confuse himself with Benjen when Benjen has dark brown hair and Bran auburn. Maybe his auburn hair is so dark that the colour is hard to get right? )
I didn't get impression that Bran and Rickon had been close, either. Bran thinks about Rickon more as his "baby brother", than as his playmate. Rickon is younger by four years and his temperament is completely different, and he seems to enjoy company of wild, lively boys such as he is. He prefered Walder Freys to Bran and the Reeds, so I don't think it was only about Bran's movability.

Auburn hair is basically brown hair with a reddish tint. The shades can vary but some of them have barely any red coloring in it. On the show Catelyn's hair is a dark shade of auburn. That's how I imagined Tully hair to be.


I'm coming to Rickon's defense again but even though I like the Reeds they're kind of weird especially Jojen, lol.

& yes. I think that Brandon and Ned weren't close.  Ned got bitter at just the mention of his name. I think Ned lived in the shadow of his charismatic, handsome, and wild older brother while they lived.

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"...father promised me to your brother Brandon." That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything..."

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"Eddard Stark had married her in Brandon's place, as custom decreed, but the shadow of his dead brother still lay between them..."

I got the impression that Lyanna and Brandon were very close but I'm not sure if she was closer to him or Benjen. Benjen was closer to her in age but Brandon was more like her in temperament.


Elia and Oberyn should be mentioned for close siblings.

[Lord Leyton]

The Tyrell siblings also all seem to be fairly close and normal, it's funny that even though Mace is portrayed as such an oaf at least he has succeeded in making his children good people and his entire family is quite normal compared to the other premiere families of the realm.

[pamparius]

houseHB, on 30 May 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I think the saying the lone-wolf dies and the pack survives refers to all the inner-family divisions that have occurred throughout the series. The Baratheons, and the Lannisters, I think the Stark family will be closer than ever after all the stuff that has happened to them. The ones that are left, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Arya and Rickon.

Bran will not return from The North.

[ARYa_Nym]

I found a few gems on Bran and Arya while looking for something else. I think that they actually were close. Maybe she was closest to him after Jon.

Robb thinks that Arya wouldn't be happy to marry Elmar but Bran thinks that Arya will never marry Elmar. I agree with Bran.

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“…if your sister Arya is returned to us safely, it is agreed that she will marry Lord Walder’s youngest son, Elmar, when the two of them come of age.” Robb looked nonplussed. “Arya won’t like that one bit.”

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“Bran had not wanted the Freys at the high table, but the master reminded him that they would soon be kin. Robb was to marry one of their aunts, and Arya one of their uncles. “She never will,” Bran said, “not Arya,” but Maester Luwin was unyielding…

& this is so cute but Bran actually compared Meera to Arya and we know later on that he has developed a little crush on her. He says neither of them treat him like he's a child.

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“…but Meera reminded Bran of his sister Arya. She wasn’t scared to get dirty, and she could run and fight and throw as good as a boy. She was older than Arya though…They were both older than Bran..but they never treated him like a child.”

[Silver Spearwife]

Lord Leyton, on 01 June 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

The Tyrell siblings also all seem to be fairly close and normal, it's funny that even though Mace is portrayed as such an oaf at least he has succeeded in making his children good people and his entire family is quite normal compared to the other premiere families of the realm.

Yeah. Could you imagine the field day that Freud would've had with the Lannisters?

ARYa_Nym, on 01 June 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

I got the impression that Lyanna and Brandon were very close but I'm not sure if she was closer to him or Benjen. Benjen was closer to her in age but Brandon was more like her in temperament.

Mmhm. Well, age isn't entirely related. Jon and Arya are definitely the tightest of the Stark kids, but they're five years apart.

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Elia and Oberyn should be mentioned for close siblings.

Agreed. I wonder if Doran and Oberyn were always as close as they are or if that happened because of Elia's death.

[Accio Euron]

Sansa seemed much more distant from all of them and enjoyed the time day dreaming about her darling prince (yuck) and giggling with her friends. Arya was close to Jon, Robb and I would argue perhaps even Bran. Bran seemed close to Robb. Robb to Jon and vice versa. Rickon was just a baby by the start of the book, so his bonds had not been expanded on because Robb, Jon, Sansa and Arya left and Bran had been stuck in bed.
The Stark children are one of the few siblings I have read that seem particularly close in a healthy way.

[Toccs]

While they all no doubt have the bond of family between them, I don't know that the six children were all particularly close to each other.

Jon and Robb were certainly very close, and it seems that they had a joint big brother relaitonship with Bran.
Jon certainly had a very close bond with Arya
Arya and Bran seem to have been somewhat close, going by their similarity and the story of them both ambushing Sansa with snow balls.
I'm not sure that Sansa was overly close with any of them, it's especially mentioned that once she found out what bastard meant that she only ever called Jon her "half brother".
I think that Rickon is far too young to have been anything other then a baby brother to any of them yet.

[A song away]

Lady Sansa Stark, on 31 May 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

And, i thought Asha thought Theon died in the sack of Winterfell? That's what I read in AFFC at least. She had to tell her mother that Theon died. She saw him again after Theon escaped from Ramsay Bolton, didn't recognize him at first and was distressed when she saw what Bolton did to Theon. So, of course she didn't think about what happens at the Dreadfort, simply because she doesn't know.
I really like Asha. (:

Me too. She got his measure and still wanted to protect him. Not many ever had Theon on their priority list, but she did even though he was an obstacle to her ruling. A woman is not immediately a bitch when she does not fawn at a male character's feet, Vandalism.

Edited by A song away, 19 June 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[exiled prince]

AndySnow, on 31 May 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

We all know the obvious close and more distant relationships between the stark/snow siblings. The ones that I think will be most important in the remaining books will be how rickon feels towards his brothers and sisters, since I think he will have a big part to play in reuniting them and am a bit concerned that due to his young age he has just grown to forget them or become indifferent of them.

Btw I love how the show displayed a kinda competitive relationship between arya and bran, because it definitely suits her character to be quite resentful of the fact that her little brother is being groomed into knighthood, overlooking her obviously better talent.

ehh idk prior to bran's fall it has been hinted that bran was on his way to being a decent fighter. in a dance with dragons when he is looking through the weirwood into the past and sees a young benjen and lyanna playing with sticks fighting eachother he at first thinks that it is him and arya but says "arya never beat me the way she (lyanna) is beating him (benjen)" meaning whenever they mock dueled he would usually beat arya

[mrunderhill]

exiled prince, on 10 May 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

ehh idk prior to bran's fall it has been hinted that bran was on his way to being a decent fighter. in a dance with dragons when he is looking through the weirwood into the past and sees a young benjen and lyanna playing with sticks fighting eachother he at first thinks that it is him and arya but says "arya never beat me the way she (lyanna) is beating him (benjen)" meaning whenever they mock dueled he would usually beat arya

Yes Bran seemed like he was taking after his uncle. He beat Arya every time despite being younger, which is impressive for him to beat somebody older. He also gave Tommen a sound beating.

All the Stark children seemed to be very close, with the exception of Sansa and Jon, but even they appeared very friendly with each other. Arya and Jon seemed to have been the closest bond between the the group, perhaps because both were outsiders.

[Rheagar Prime]

they were mad close. Other than sansa and jon not being all that close they were the snow ball fight sansa remembers shows that. The visit to the crypts arya remembers when jon came out in flour and even when king bob comes to winterfell showed how close they were. Its just catelyn that made sansa not that close to jon has the others were.

[Morienthar]

Bran was the baby brother they knew,Rickon was too young to form a real friendship sort of a bond.
Sansa was off daydreaming most of the time
Arya,Jon and Bran and Robb got along just fine I think.

[Son of Stannis]

Jon and Arya were close because they were the most different they were the outsiders, Bran is like the pious scholar type who would become a priese and Robb and Sansa were the jocks.

[Minsc]

Son of Stannis, on 11 May 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

Jon and Arya were close because they were the most different they were the outsiders, Bran is like the pious scholar type who would become a priese and Robb and Sansa were the jocks.

Quite frankly, Sansa seems like more of an actual outsider in the family then either Jon or Arya.  Seeing how all the other Stark children seem naturally inclined to more traditional masculine activities while Sansa is more traditionally feminine.  Meaning that when the Stark Children were at play it would be more likely that Robb, Jon, Arya, and Bran could all bond through their interests in horse riding or sword fighting while Sansa would be alone in her interests in singing and sewing.

[jon stark I]

I think Ned, Brandon and Lyanna were close.Ned gets bitter because I think he doesn't like being reminded that he has everything that once belonged to his brother.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Easily Jon and Arya were the closest

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“the girl smiled in a way that reminded jon so much of his little sister that it almost broke his heart”

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“And Arya… he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful. Arya never seemed to fit, no more than he had… yet she could always make Jon smile. He would give anything to be with her now, to muss up her hair once more and watch her make a face, to hear her finish a sentence with him.”

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Needle was Jon Snow’s smile. He used to mess my hair and call me “little sister,” she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 11 May 2013 - 04:55 AM.

[Nerolunar]

I have separated them in who they are mostly together with.

Robb: We don´t see him close to anyone but Jon and Bran. Maybe Rickon.

Jon: Only Robb and Arya.

Sansa: Only Arya and maybe Bran.

Arya: Mostly Jon and Sansa.

Bran: Robb and Rickon mostly.

Rickon: Mostly or only Bran.