72 replies to this topic

[Hmadkour]

While rereading ASOS to prepare for the upcoming season of Game of Thrones, i noticed how much emphasis is put on The Rains of Castamere and the ambiguity concerning the rest of the song. I thought that maybe there is a living Reyne, a last scion of the house, who will be the downfall of the Lannisters.

Am I the only one who considered this?
Does anyone agree?

[Ice Turtle]

There are a lot of people walking that should be dead, some are dead but most of them just faked their deaths. That said, there is no indication that there are any living Reyne's.
What I think the song is about is that Tywin eradicated two of his bannermen, made big deal of it and now all the Lannisters think they can deal with seven kingdoms the same way, which is grievous mistake they will come to rue.

[Anna Targaryen]

Quote

What I think the song is about is that Tywin eradicated two of his bannermen, made big deal of it and now all the Lannisters think they can deal with seven kingdoms the same way, which is grievous mistake they will come to rue.

i dont think it was about eradicating 2 of his bannermen but more of the cruelty that is been done with
and i belive the rest of the song say something about killing his infants heirs

[Jamie Lannister]

I sincerely doubt it. The Lannisters are already on their last legs as it is with their forces spent and stretched, kings in every corner, Lord Tywin dead, Regent Lord Kevan dead, Queen-Regent Cersei disgraced, Ser Jaime vanished, the Imp an attainted kin and kingslayer in exile, and roses wrapping vines all around their illegitimate boy king.

It's way too late for Martin to asspull something like a vengeful Reyne to finish House Lannister off. They're doing a fine job of getting destroyed as it is.

Edited by Jamie Lannister, 31 May 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[Wyman's Man]

I wouldn't count the Lannisters all out. Cersei could still survive her trial, and the monstrosity that is Ser Robert Strong a.k.a UnGregor is still a force to be reckoned with. It will be interesting to see how Jaime gets out of the mess with Lady Stoneheart.

[Hmadkour]

Anna Targaryen, on 31 May 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

i dont think it was about eradicating 2 of his bannermen but more of the cruelty that is been done with
and i belive the rest of the song say something about killing his infants heirs

That's the Douglas Harrison version of the song you're referring to " The lions at his gate have come, to lift his infant heirs on spears"

[nara]

I've wondered if Darkstar is really a Castamere or Tarbeck.  It would explain his attack on Myrcella.

[Faint]

I've recently come around to the view that Jeyne Westerling will be the one to put the nail in the coffin, in a manner of speaking.

[LordofWinter]

Anna Targaryen, on 31 May 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

i dont think it was about eradicating 2 of his bannermen but more of the cruelty that is been done with
and i belive the rest of the song say something about killing his infants heirs

Wait.....what?
We're talking about "the rains of Castamere"?

[Ordos]

Many great houses are no more. The Starks are scattered, the Tullys have their rule over the Riverlands removed, The Greyjoys are uncertain of their succession as well as the Arryns (we don't know what will become of them without sick Robert). The Targaryens were already no more but could buck the downward trend by returning with dragons. The Baratheons have their leader up North, but I think the Stromlands are all but in full control of Tommen and Cersei (Berore Aegon arrived with his army). The Lannisters are next.

Only the Tyrells and the Martells are still powerful Great Houses.

[Luna Plath]

Ordos, on 31 May 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Many great houses are no more. The Starks are scattered, the Tullys have their rule over the Riverlands removed, The Greyjoys are uncertain of their succession as well as the Arryns (we don't know what will become of them without sick Robert). The Targaryens were already no more but could buck the downward trend by returning with dragons. The Baratheons have their leader up North, but I think the Stromlands are all but in full control of Tommen and Cersei (Berore Aegon arrived with his army). The Lannisters are next.

Only the Tyrells and the Martells are still powerful Great Houses.

This is an excellent point.  Pretty much the same thing happened when Aegon took over the seven kingdoms (with exceptions like the Starks).  It'll be interesting to see if some people are able to retain their ancestral seats (like I'm predicting with the Stark family) or if new wardens will be named (as we see in the Riverlands).

I don't think a Reyne will crop up out of nowhere.  I think Cersei will manage to do further disservice to her house as the series goes on.  They've been on increasingly shaky ground ever since Tywin died.

[Ravenhair]

From the wiki, here are the lyrics:

And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

It's about Tywin's destruction of House Reyne of Castamere.

Edited by Ravenhair, 01 June 2012 - 12:03 AM.

[The Last Reyne]

Hmadkour, on 31 May 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

While rereading ASOS to prepare for the upcoming season of Game of Thrones, i noticed how much emphasis is put on The Rains of Castamere and the ambiguity concerning the rest of the song. I thought that maybe there is a living Reyne, a last scion of the house, who will be the downfall of the Lannisters.

Am I the only one who considered this?
Does anyone agree?

Yes you are correct. I am right now plotting my revenge and writing my new song, the Rains of Casterly Rock.

Seriously though, I don't believe there is a Reyne still alive as it seems a little late in the story to trot them out now and I believe some of the Lannisters are going to be redeemed and survive the mess their family has made. But you never know GRRM has done crazier things.

[LordBiscuit]

They don't have to be redeemed to stay alive, this isn't your common American literature.
IMO some of Lannisters will survive, some won't. It's not a matter of redemption, it's a matter of whether something that gets them killed happens or doesn't happen.

[Gurkhal]

Ice Turtle, on 31 May 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

There are a lot of people walking that should be dead, some are dead but most of them just faked their deaths. That said, there is no indication that there are any living Reyne's.
What I think the song is about is that Tywin eradicated two of his bannermen, made big deal of it and now all the Lannisters think they can deal with seven kingdoms the same way, which is grievous mistake they will come to rue.

I disagree. The Lannisters have not tried anything like that in the Seven Kingdoms at large. Remember what Tywin said "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. But when they bend their knees you must help them to their feet or no one will ever bend their knees to you."

Reynes and Tarbecks were exceptions and not the rule on how House Lannister deal with its enemies.

Anna Targaryen, on 31 May 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

i dont think it was about eradicating 2 of his bannermen but more of the cruelty that is been done with
and i belive the rest of the song say something about killing his infants heirs

In the fan-made version of the song, yes. That part does not appear in the books however.

Jamie Lannister, on 31 May 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

I sincerely doubt it. The Lannisters are already on their last legs as it is with their forces spent and stretched, kings in every corner, Lord Tywin dead, Regent Lord Kevan dead, Queen-Regent Cersei disgraced, Ser Jaime vanished, the Imp an attainted kin and kingslayer in exile, and roses wrapping vines all around their illegitimate boy king.

It's way too late for Martin to asspull something like a vengeful Reyne to finish House Lannister off. They're doing a fine job of getting destroyed as it is.

Yep most likely. But then again there are still many Lannisters left and while they might lose their grip on the Iron Throne it will take dragons and more than a little vengeaful/psychtic Targaryen to displace them from the Westerlands rather than just force them to bend their knees.

Hmadkour, on 31 May 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

That's the Douglas Harrison version of the song you're referring to " The lions at his gate have come, to lift his infant heirs on spears"

Exactly.

nara, on 31 May 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I've wondered if Darkstar is really a Castamere or Tarbeck.  It would explain his attack on Myrcella.

He's certainly an annoying asshole so its not entirely impossible.

The major view seems to be that the Lannisters will lose their grip on the throne and it don't look much better. But what comes after that is something that's very different. The Lannisters have pissed off alot of people while the Tyrells haven't and so Tommen's reign might be a bit more secure than it presently looks.

Also an interesting scenario is that if Tommen is killed, there will still be both Targaryens and Baratheons claiming the throne, and while the lords of the North, Riverlands and Vale might not want to see a Lannister king on the throne they might not want a new Targaryen either when they could have a proper Baratheon, provided that Stannis defeats Bolton. And the Lannisters and Tyrells MIGHTY also rather see a new Baratheon than a Targaryen bent on revenge for the War of the Usurper.

My thoughts on the matter.

[Ice Turtle]

Gurkhal, on 01 June 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

I disagree. The Lannisters have not tried anything like that in the Seven Kingdoms at large. Remember what Tywin said "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. But when they bend their knees you must help them to their feet or no one will ever bend their knees to you."

There is never mentioned that Reynes or Castemeres tried to bend the knee. Cersei certainly never planed to make allies from any of her enemies and Tyrion isn't much better when someone angers him.

[Gurkhal]

Ice Turtle, on 01 June 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

There is never mentioned that Reynes or Castemeres tried to bend the knee. Cersei certainly never planed to make allies from any of her enemies and Tyrion isn't much better when someone angers him.

Alright there's Cersei but she's an exception and I think she's been writen down by the autor in the last two books. I'm more thinking about who Jaime is handeling the whole situation in the Riverlands which does not include killing every House that ever stood up against the Lannisters. Tyrion is a bit of a middle thing because he certainly isn't as bad as Cersei, which I think he treatment of Alister Thorne shows, but I agree that he's no saint.

Edited by Gurkhal, 01 June 2012 - 07:48 AM.

[Lord Damian]

Tywin did not realize it but he was disgraced in this war and was living in denial about it up until his messy death. The whole kingdom knows that Robb Stark kicked his ass on every battlefield and was murdered by the Freys who were in league with Tywin Lannister to betray him. Also, for most of the people including the noble houses, it has been commonly accepted that the children of Cersei are incestous bastards by her own brother. Jaime has pretty much been admitting to it and Cersei mistakenly has told this to what she thinks is her closes confidant. The remaining army they have in the riverlands is pretty much deserted or murdered by the BWB and uncat, the remants of any force are a small one at Kings Landing and the other will be headed to Riverrun for the big wedding with the Frey girl and the new warden of the West. This is most likely a death trap by the BWB and possibly the Blackfish. The Lannisters downfall will most likely occur on book 6.

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] Please keep it civil. Thank you. [/mod]

[The Last Direwolf]

I can't see it to be honest. One of their own forced them to their knees by murdering Tywin, and Sansa will finish them off when the Vale rise for her. Woop!