Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:28 PM
He was told to hold Riverrun and never was told to stay in Riverrun.
Robb's directions were very unclear and if he had wanted Tywin to chase him he could've said so.
Edmure actually performed much better than anybody could've expected. He just didn't know about Stannis. For that matter neither did Robb and he probably just got pissed off in hindsight.
BTW I am a big Young Wolf fanboy so I'm not a Stark hater.
Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:26 PM
Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:54 PM
Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:35 AM
If Edmure had done what Robb and Blackfish told him that he should have done and just hold Riverrun, Tywin would have been instantly suspicious at the ease of the crossing and might very well have stopped and laid siege to Riverrun itself. Robb and Blackfish wanted Edmure to do exactly what he did, they just assumed that he would naturally fail because like everyone else they see him as useless.
The riverlands were only involved in the War at all because Edmure decided to support his sister when she abducted Tyrion. All he did was attempt to help his family and his people were the ones to suffer for it. Edmure's treatment is in my opinion a huge blight on the characters of Catelyn, Robb and the Blackfish.
Edited by Toccs, 01 June 2012 - 01:38 AM.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:37 AM
Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:42 AM
Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:20 AM
Edited by Buried Treasure, 01 June 2012 - 02:22 AM.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:44 AM
Yes, it's explained that Edmure was being rash and thinking of his own personal glory rather than Robb's grand plans. Yet you can't help feeling at least a little sorry for him with the way they treat him.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:53 AM
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:11 AM
The Lannisters only started sending forces to attack the Riverlands after Catelyn abducted Tyrion in the riverlands in the name of her Father, I don't know what you mean about "pulling a late lord frey while Robb won every battle" at that point Robb hadn't even called his banners. Catelyn brought the war to Edmure's doorstep and he still loyally tried to help his family and all Cat ever did was think negatively of him.
Edmure was simply defending Riverrun as instructed. If there had been no defence at the river crossing then Tywin would have smelled a trap. Robb and Blackfish didn't want Edmure to just sit in Riverrun, they wanted him to attack Tywin, they just assumed that Edmure would lose.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:17 AM
She does it in King's Robert's name, and Ned claims it was on his orders, so it's lawful as far as the realm is concerned. Tywin breaking the King's Peace is not however.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:22 AM
And technically Tywin didn't break the King's Peace because he sent the men in without banners. They were just bandits, small difference I know to the people who's homes got burned, but still.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:23 AM
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:26 AM
Both sides have their share of guilt, although I think Robb and Brynden have it more than Edmure. They're the King and a seasoned commander, (in theory) they should know better.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:27 AM
No, she commented on how they were friends of her father's before she called upon them to seize Tyrion in the name of the King, not Hoster Tully.
Important distinction, she's using the King's authority.
Who would have told him it was done in King Robert's name. That's not an unlawful act. Cersei is then told by Ned it's in his authority, so it can't be construed as anything but a legal arrest by the Lannisters. Tywin does not say when Tyrion returns from the Vale he challenges the legality of it, he challenges it based on the fact Tyrion is a Lannister, and nobody fucks with the Lannisters.
Even if you don't consider this breaking the King's Peace, Tywin's tactic here failed. Hoster Tully withdrew and ordered his forces not to retaliate (which Ned compliments him on). Then Tywin invades the Riverlands proper and besieges Riverrun. That certainly breaks the King's Peace.
Edited by danm_999, 01 June 2012 - 03:28 AM.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:32 AM
Hoster Tully was bedridden and suffering dementia. Edmure withrew and order his forces not to retaliate, which was my original point.
As for the kidnapping. It happened in the riverlands, by Hoster Tully's daughter, using Hoster Tully's bannermen, it is perfectly logical to assume that it was done on Tully orders without further information.
Edited by Toccs, 01 June 2012 - 03:34 AM.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:38 AM
That is wrong.
“The lords of the Trident keep the king’s peace,” Ser Raymun Darry said. “The Lannisters have broken it. We ask leave to answer them, steel for steel. We ask justice for the smallfolk of Sherrer and Wendish Town and the Mummer’s Ford.”
“Edmure agrees, we must pay Gregor Clegane back his bloody coin,” Ser Marq declared, “but old Lord Hoster commanded us to come here and beg the king’s leave before we strike.”
Thank the gods for old Lord Hoster, then.
It's not perfectly logical because the only way you could assume that is if you somehow didn't hear the entire sentence where Catelyn invoked the King's Justice.
Except everybody there heard the whole sentence, that it was done in the name of King Robert. Ned confirms that in King's Landing, that's one of the reasons Robert's so pissed with Ned.
Edited by danm_999, 01 June 2012 - 03:41 AM.
Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:48 AM
Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:58 AM