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Who is Mance Rayder?


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#1 TheLastHero

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:22 AM

Okay we are told that Mance's mother was a wildling and he was raised at the wall.
I just think he is too good for a common wildling because....... He can speak the old tongue fluently, he is an amazing bard, he is influentual and he is a fantastic swordman.
Here are some ideas.

Rhaegar Targaryen.....
He seems like an odd choice here is my evidence. Mance is obsessed by the Bael the bard tale, Rhaegar's love for Lyanna Stark is similar. He kidnaps her the Starks search for her but in the end they find she has fallen inlove and with child (Jon is probably Lyanna's and Rhaegar).
Mance is amazing with swords, Rhaegar was also a great warrior. Mance is influentual and it is said the poor cheered for Rhaegar more than there king.
Rhaegar loved music so does Mance.
Many say now 'but Rhaegar died'. MAYBE HE DIDN'T. I think Eddard worked out the true reason for Rhaegars love of Lyanna and the only reason why he was in the rebellion was because his father and bro were killed. Now hear is what happened. Eddard captured Rhaegar before the Trident as a member of House Stark sent him to the wall and said he would protect his sons and daughters. Or He wasn't at the battle ( It seems odd that the amazing knight Ser Rhaegar fell to Robert who was basically just strong) he was with Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. The Kingsguard fought Eddard but he prevailed. As Lyanna was dying i think she gave birth to a still born. Lyanna's last wish was Eddard help Rhaegar, the man whom she loved, from Robert. He thought the Stark way, what is the best place for him to hide a go incognito. The wall and Night's Watch. The free cities would be way to high profile for a Targ and the Wall erases your past history. They faked a history, Eddard probably persuaded the Watch because he was a Stark. Now Rhaegar as mance sees himself trapped but he has a new identity so he becomes king beyond the wall. We also know he thought he was Azor Ahai and Mance thought the Others. Having said this i believe he wasnt captured by Ramsay and he sacrifice all to save mankind against the Others

#2 fassreiter

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:27 AM

And here I thought this theory was done for. I was wrong.

#3 Pellaeon

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:31 AM

Mance was raised by the NW so he probably learn the old tounge from maester Aemon, he isn't Rhaegar

#4 Ser Flowers

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:36 AM

*facepalm* As much as I would love Rhaegar still being alive, its just not possible. Hundreds of people seen him killed by Robert at the Trident and Martin has explicitly said that Rhaegar is dead. GRRM doesn't lie about things, he is just vague with answers when he is hiding a twist. I personally believe the story that is told in the books, Mance was born a wildling and was raised on the wall. Why do people always try to make characters more than they really are?

#5 Lady Sansa Stark

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:42 AM

No, just.. No.
Rhaegar is dead, as well as Lyanna, and Mance Rayder is just Mance Rayder.

#6 victim

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:48 AM

The Mance Rhaegar theory makes absolutely no sense, seeing as well, Mance would have already been at the Wall when Rhaegar was a prince in KL.

Edit: Also, someone would have noticed the pretty-boy with the dark-indigo eyes somewhere along the way.

Edited by victim, 03 June 2012 - 05:50 AM.


#7 TheCube

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:55 AM

Hmm, well I suppose it could...

No, no. 'Tis a silly theory.

#8 El Mehdi Baha

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:08 AM

I personally love it, and I think it may be true. I mean, think about it !
+ Martin saying "Rhaegar is dead", of course he is, he's no longer Rhaegar Targaryen, he's Mance Rayder.
+ The fact he thought his charm, wit and intelligence could make him King Beyond the Wall clearly means he's a highborn, more than that, his great ambition and confidence shows he's a true Targaryen Prince.
+ He didn't want to "serve" the Wall, he wanted something bigger than that. A dragon ambition...
+ His excuse for leaving the Wall : I wanted a red cloak instead of a black one. Clearly, he wanted to be a Targaryen once again.
+ The issue of the battle between him and Robert is one of the weirdest one in this series.
+ He loves playing and singing.
+ Now here's the big one : Jon, while protecting Mance Rayder's son, is actually protecting his half-brother, a true Targaryen. He's now heading to the Citadel...

I hope you found these evidences strong enough /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Edited by El Mehdi Baha, 03 June 2012 - 06:09 AM.


#9 Stag's Fury

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 07:40 AM

If that's the case, the whole Robert Rebellion would be so very inefficient.
Rhaegar sneaked away, Aegon got swapped, Dany, Viserys ran away.
So, the rebellion only managed to stab a king in the back and murdered a baby girl? What a brilliant job that is.

#10 The Drunkard

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:13 AM

Pretty sure Mance is actually Tormunds Giantsbane, though just wearing a fabulous mask.

#11 Anvilbreaker

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:23 PM

old people at the wall would remember if he wasn't really raised there.

#12 mcb

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 12:30 PM

You forgot to put "and he warged into..." somewhere.

#13 Jolene Brown

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:43 PM

If that's the case, the whole Robert Rebellion would be so very inefficient.
Rhaegar sneaked away, Aegon got swapped, Dany, Viserys ran away.
So, the rebellion only managed to stab a king in the back and murdered a baby girl? What a brilliant job that is.


I wouldn't even really call what Jaime did part of the rebellion.

#14 Dolorous Ali

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:58 PM

No no no. Rhaegar's dead. Why do people still think that he's someone else. Robert killed him, hundreds saw it happen. Robert was a very good killer back then, not just strong, then he became king and got fat. Why would Rhaegar attack the wall? To save the Wildings who don't care about king's peace and law? Mance fought the NW so that the Wildings go south of the wall without being kneelers. I think a prince would want his people to be kneelers!
And why wouldn't he protect Viserys and Dany?

Edited by Dolorous Ali, 03 June 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#15 mediterraneo

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:15 PM

Mance Rayder is Benjen Stark.

It is known.

(No, I'm not joking!
He is Benjen under glamour. Benjen swore the oath to the trees, north of the wall, just as Jon did, just as the First Men do, and he is a Stark of Winterfell, implied hands and feet in the Pact, whatever it is. And descending from the others, via Bael the Bard, whose name he used to be in Winterfell. And that explains why did he know winterfell so good, and he could move in the North without getting taken nor signaled, on the Knig's Road as well as on the Flint's mountains. Mance was not really a king in a capitol, but always traveling, not much people was with him all of the time. And when the time came, and the Free People reunited to march south, then Mance appeared with them. And Benjen got missing. It could be that the organized sentrys of the Free People column surprised and killed the rangers, just in the same time but... This is more interesting, isn't it? And by the way: who of the Night's Watch members we met ever spoke of personally knowing a diserter named Mance Raider? Or remembering serving with him? Mance even pretends to be the son of a watchman, not a deserting watchman... Something that has to do with the interpretation of what a "true" watchman is, as in 'the wall will be impassable as long the Watch is true'.
One strange point I'd add to the situation is the fine coincidence of Mance being a king that shares the cape's color with another dynasty of kings who have a living member of the north side of the Wall. Red patch woven over black tissue. As Brynden Rivers's father's family.)

#16 Dr. Pepper

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:14 AM

Okay we are told that Mance's mother was a wildling and he was raised at the wall.
I just think he is too good for a common wildling because....... He can speak the old tongue fluently, he is an amazing bard, he is influentual and he is a fantastic swordman.
Here are some ideas.


Mance isn't a common wildling. He was raised at the Wall and then was trained to be a ranger. One possible explanation for why he can speak the Old Tongue is that he's spent so many years around others that he's picked it up. It was probably necessary that he learn considering his ambition to lead wildlings who knew very little of the Common Tongue. Rhaegar may have been able to learn the Old Tongue, but so would many others. Mance is charismatic and a good swordsman, but these traits aren't unique to Rhaegar.

Rhaegar Targaryen.....
He seems like an odd choice here is my evidence. Mance is obsessed by the Bael the bard tale, Rhaegar's love for Lyanna Stark is similar. He kidnaps her the Starks search for her but in the end they find she has fallen inlove and with child (Jon is probably Lyanna's and Rhaegar).


Is Mance obsessed with the Bael the Bard tale? I didn't get that impression. I got the impression he used the name Abel, an acronym of Bael, as a sort of joke considering he was going to Winterfell in order to 'steal' "Arya" away from Ramsay Bolton, the new Lord of Winterfell.


Mance is amazing with swords, Rhaegar was also a great warrior. Mance is influentual and it is said the poor cheered for Rhaegar more than there king.

Jamie Lannister is good with a sword. So is Brienne, Garlan Tyrell, Loras, the Hound, and many others. Mance spent his childhood at the Wall where I'm sure he was trained by the master-at-arms.

Rhaegar loved music so does Mance.


Many people love music. Tom O'Sevens loves music. Daeron loved music. It doesn't make them likely to be Rhaegar.


Many say now 'but Rhaegar died'. MAYBE HE DIDN'T. I think Eddard worked out the true reason for Rhaegars love of Lyanna and the only reason why he was in the rebellion was because his father and bro were killed. Now hear is what happened. Eddard captured Rhaegar before the Trident as a member of House Stark sent him to the wall and said he would protect his sons and daughters. Or He wasn't at the battle ( It seems odd that the amazing knight Ser Rhaegar fell to Robert who was basically just strong) he was with Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. The Kingsguard fought Eddard but he prevailed. As Lyanna was dying i think she gave birth to a still born. Lyanna's last wish was Eddard help Rhaegar, the man whom she loved, from Robert. He thought the Stark way, what is the best place for him to hide a go incognito. The wall and Night's Watch. The free cities would be way to high profile for a Targ and the Wall erases your past history. They faked a history, Eddard probably persuaded the Watch because he was a Stark. Now Rhaegar as mance sees himself trapped but he has a new identity so he becomes king beyond the wall. We also know he thought he was Azor Ahai and Mance thought the Others. Having said this i believe he wasnt captured by Ramsay and he sacrifice all to save mankind against the Others


Hundreds saw Rhaegar die. On the Trident. Ned couldn't have captured him and sent him to the wall before this happens. Robert wasn't just strong, he was an able fighter. He may not have been proficient with the sword, but he was certainly very good with his chosen weapon. He defeated many in battles so it's not strange that he would have landed a death blow on Rhaegar.

If Rhaegar had gone on to join the Night's Watch, it would have been noticed. He had pretty defining features and he was well known. They could have made up any sort of fake history, but people would have known him for who he was. Finally, Rhaegar may have thought he was the Prince That Was Promised in his youth, but he didn't think that into adulthood. Dany sees and hears him call baby Aegon the Prince That Was Promised when she's at the House of the Undying.

#17 Night Gathers

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:37 AM

Here are some ideas.

Rhaegar Targaryen.....


No.

#18 Victarions Secret

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:43 AM

Pretty sure Mance is actually Tormunds Giantsbane, though just wearing a fabulous mask.


Only one way to validate that! Who got the biggest manhood??

#19 BennC93

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 07:59 AM

Dareon likes music!....
hang on..!
Rhaegar was smuggled to the wall... and became Dareon!!!
;-) I knew it...... yay!!! Rhaegar is alive!!........ wait..What!

#20 RhaenysBalerion

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Posted 14 June 2012 - 08:16 AM

Pretty sure Mance is actually Tormunds Giantsbane, though just wearing a fabulous mask.


Why not Tormund's member then? Mance should be some six feet tall at least, it would fit.

No, really. Mance is just Mance.
Rhaegar, poor thing, died on the Trident and Benjen Stark might be Coldhands or just dead too.
Mance Rayder is Mance Rayder, King beyond the wall... etc.
Except...No. He is just Mance. I'll not get my hopes up.