[Book Spoilers] House of the Undying

[nubreed000]

Show on the Iron Throne and Dany finding her Sun-and-Stars beyond the Wall. Subtle.

At that point Jon being a Targ, getting it on with Dany and becoming King is pretty much set, which makes me kind of sad because I hate the R+L with a passion.

Just to pile on the complaints about botching the most important scene of the second season (and book):

1. How hard it is to put a single blue rose in a scene? It could just be there beyond the Wall, lying on the ground and everybody would be happy.

2. The visions of the past and future: You don't need to build ten whole new sets and hire fifty actors for that. Just have Dany walk through a long corridor with doors on both sides - as she passes each door she sees a scene happening in there. We don't get to see anything but we can clearly hear stuff like "He's the song of Ice and Fire", "He'll be king of ash and ruins", "I looked for you on the Trident" and "Promise me Ned".

That's exactly how it should've been done, but the producers really dropped the ball on this one, and overall on the season in general. I'm pretty disappointed.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I liked the scene. wasn't really expecting a whole lot of visions. But I thought t he snow on the throne and the dany beyond the wall looked beautiful.

[Tadco26]

House of the undying, but we don't get to see Dany meet the undying? None of the relavant prophesies? Of course the whole thing was completely contrived from the start, Dany was powerless when the rest of the 13 were killed and they could have simply chained her in real chains at sword point and killed Jorah and the rest of her people right then. I didn't expect a word for word translation and I'm not surprised they butchered it after what they have done with her story line all season, but I'm still disappointed.

[Prince of Braavos]

I just don't understand the disappointment when WE JUST GOT A BOOK 6/7 SNEAK PREVIEW. Seriously the burned out throne room in Winter was something we've never actually seen in the books but it's definitely coming and the show just showed it to us. That's incredible. That moment isn't going to happen for real until season 6 or later (if the show survives that long) but THEY JUST SHOWED IT RIGHT NOW. This is series endgame stuff, people. That's cool as hell.

[dreamcatcher]

I just don't understand the disappointment when WE JUST GOT A BOOK 6/7 SNEAK PREVIEW. Seriously the burned out throne room in Winter was something we've never actually seen in the books but it's definitely coming and the show just showed it to us. That's incredible. That moment isn't going to happen for real until season 6 or later (if the show survives that long) but THEY JUST SHOWED IT RIGHT NOW. This is series endgame stuff, people. That's cool as hell.

I really don't want to know about book 6 and 7 from the show. If it wasn't in the books, I don't want to see it. I'd rather stop watching than be spoiled on something that will happen in the books.

[jons nissa]

What they totally, totally failed to do was wink at us book fans. A flower at the Wall, a cloth dragon, etc. things that don't, and shouldn't, make much sense to a non-book viewer or alert them. That keeps both sides happy and it is this aspect that worries me about this year's adaptation.

i think they did throw book viewers a bone. when dany sees her son in the book, he has her color hair. there's no reason for her baby not having that color hair in the show. i think that is a clear statement that targaryans can have dark hair and puts more fuel on the fire or r+l=j. i've seen some speculate that it's jon himself since she doesn't act motherly around him - just looks on. that is probably a stretch but i think this scene helps support a theory you would only know if you read the books. could they have done more? of course. but everything has to help non-viewers understand the story so in the long run this scene works for both readers and non-readers.

If everyone could take a step back and actually look at this scene for what it was, it actually showed a lot of stuff.

First off, notice the throne room's condition. The floor level is covered in snow and ICE while the roof looks to be burnt, as if by FIRE. Um hello? ICE and FIRE anyone?

Second, the Iron Throne is covered in snow. Dany observes it, hears her dragons, then follows their cries to the next area which is... The Wall?! Hmmm the throne covered in snow and the scene immediately following that is at the wall. Jon Snow come to anyone's mind? Could be nothing, or could be something much more.

i agree. the first thing i started wondering about was why the throne room looked the way it did. is this after her dragons have arrived or before she even shows up? does the fact that she doesn't touch the throne or sit on it foreshadow anything? having her leave the red keep and arrive at the wall is clearly a hint of what will happen when she finally arrives in westeros. will she arrive in king's landing only to find it ruined and told the enemy is at the wall and head north? or does it mean she will find her "family" on the other side of the wall where jon happens to be?

when i saw this thread i was excited about reading all the speculation about what happened not another complaint thread. i think this scene shows things both readers and non-readers can understand but is much more for the readers. doesn't anyone want to discuss the NEW prophecies we've been given?

[Dunnii]

I just don't understand the disappointment when WE JUST GOT A BOOK 6/7 SNEAK PREVIEW. Seriously the burned out throne room in Winter was something we've never actually seen in the books but it's definitely coming and the show just showed it to us. That's incredible. That moment isn't going to happen for real until season 6 or later (if the show survives that long) but THEY JUST SHOWED IT RIGHT NOW. This is series endgame stuff, people. That's cool as hell.

I agree. I thought that was pretty cool, and it was also interesting how Dany walks up to the throne (in the snow) but never touches it. She walks outside and it is the wall, but .....but.... maybe I'm dumb, but I did NOT understand the purpose of Drogo and the son. What was that? I really don't get it.

I also have to wonder if a non-book reader even followed Dany's story with the House of the Undying. If you just watch the show, you never quite understand why the warlocks want her there and what they were doing at the end. I didn't even understand. And since there were no "undying" how can a non-book reader have any clue what that was even about?

[Tadco26]

I just don't understand the disappointment when WE JUST GOT A BOOK 6/7 SNEAK PREVIEW. Seriously the burned out throne room in Winter was something we've never actually seen in the books but it's definitely coming and the show just showed it to us. That's incredible. That moment isn't going to happen for real until season 6 or later (if the show survives that long) but THEY JUST SHOWED IT RIGHT NOW. This is series endgame stuff, people. That's cool as hell.

Considering how changed Dany's story line is right now, expecting the story to resemble the books by book 6-7 is certainly not a given.

[Morvran]

Not reading through everything yet, but I assume they'll have Quaithe fill in the prophecy blanks as the story unfolds.

I was expecting something different from the HotU scene, but I enjoyed what they did. The Khal Drogo and baby part was especially touching. At the same time I felt like they were just like, "Ok, we have no money left, so let's use sets that we already have in place".

[Lady Octarina]

The one good Daenerys chapter ruined with bad choices. I already knew they wouldn't show half of what she sees in the book it wouldn't be possible, and, come on, after what they spent with the Blackwater last episode, we were lucky to have dragons and direwolves at all. But would it have been too hard to spend those five minutes of the Drogo scene showing some glimpses of the past? Or to make some people in the shadows whisper her a few secrets? I love Jason Momoa as much as the next person, but that scene was simply unnecessary.

But I liked what we see of King's Landing, as much as I doubt we should consider that any confirmation for what will happen in the books. And the Wall, I really saw no purpose of showing it if they didn't put the bloody blue rose growing on it. Three seconds of her looking at it would have been enough, would it be that hard? I get that the intention was probably to show that KL destruction or whatever when Winter arrives will be due to what comes from beyond the Wall, but I still don't agree with how they chose to show it.

[BabyMeraxes]

I thought it was lame. I really wanted to hear a chorus of Warlocks chant: "MOTHER OF DRAGONS, BRIDE OF FLAME."

That being said, this is a really rough scene to adapt, espescially because they don't know how long this series will last, or how future events are going to unfold. Real talk? Everything was forgiven when I saw Viserion and Rhaegal.

[Katydid]

house of the undying with no three betrayals, was it really that hard to add it in? Weiss & Benioff blew this simple thing.

Plain and simple truth. They blew it.

And they can't blame this one on budget. They spent entirely too much time on Dany creeping slow-motion around an empty room, rather than trying 2 or 3 doors and seeing different people/visions behind each.

Seeing Jason back was a nice surprise, but considering how pointless it was, the timing of that scene could have been cut in half. They waxed poetic about whether or not it was a dream for too long. Dany backs out of there crying in half the time, and there would've been plenty of time for her to try another door, opening it on a shadowy figure sitting on a throne with the seeming outline of wolf-ears on his head.

For as much as I enjoyed several things about this season, this entire arc of Dany's was EPIC FAIL, D&D. The worst fail of the entire season. :(

[Crown]

For the first time this series I am really disappointed, I was so looking forward to see the House of the Undying.

[Lord Varys]

They completely fucked it. There's no way denying that.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

They completely fucked it. There's no way denying that.

Well, yes there is. Opinion isn't fact. I see nothing they did of substance that can't be repaired in terms of plot/character development later. To me, the key to accepting the adaptation is that necessary development may not happen exactly on the same timeline as in the books. Just because Danys doesn't get those prophesies in the House of the Undying at the end of Season 2 doesn't mean she won't get them later is perhaps the best example of that.

[SerMixalot]

I just don't understand the disappointment when WE JUST GOT A BOOK 6/7 SNEAK PREVIEW. Seriously the burned out throne room in Winter was something we've never actually seen in the books but it's definitely coming and the show just showed it to us. That's incredible. That moment isn't going to happen for real until season 6 or later (if the show survives that long) but THEY JUST SHOWED IT RIGHT NOW. This is series endgame stuff, people. That's cool as hell.

I would have preferred such info come from the author not from the TV show.

[Morvran]

Seeing Jason back was a nice surprise, but considering how pointless it was, the timing of that scene could have been cut in half. They waxed poetic about whether or not it was a dream for too long. Dany backs out of there crying in half the time, and there would've been plenty of time for her to try another door, opening it on a shadowy figure sitting on a throne with the seeming outline of wolf-ears on his head.

I would MUCH rather have a nice long scene between Dany and Drogo (and their son) that relayed real emotion and yearning than a bunch of shorter, frantic HotU scenes. Their scene in the tent, for me, made up for everything else I was looking for in HBOs HotU. And I think for the non-readers it was even more meaningful b/c it gave them closure on a couple they grew to love last season (and who was mercilessly torn away from them). They can 'fix' the prophecy issues quite easily if they so choose.

[SerMixalot]

Well, yes there is. Opinion isn't fact. I see nothing they did of substance that can't be repaired in terms of plot/character development later. To me, the key to accepting the adaptation is that necessary development may not happen exactly on the same timeline as in the books. Just because Danys doesn't get those prophesies in the House of the Undying at the end of Season 2 doesn't mean she won't get them later is perhaps the best example of that.

and what gives you the impression that the storytelling of D&D will live up to that?

[The Queen of Thorns]

Sorry but how on earth would the prophecies ruined anything for the series.

If they had done it right they would have ruined about as much as they did in the books.

Ie not very much!

[Fossoway]

I agree. I thought that was pretty cool, and it was also interesting how Dany walks up to the throne (in the snow) but never touches it. She walks outside and it is the wall, but .....but.... maybe I'm dumb, but I did NOT understand the purpose of Drogo and the son. What was that? I really don't get it.

I saw the purpose as two-fold -- a last temptation to give up and be a good little dragon princess for the wizards, and a way for Dany to accept that she had responsibilities to her dragons and Westeros that outweighed her desires to play house with Drogo in her mind (hence her recitation of "when the sun rises in the west," etc. before resolutely walking away).

I for one did not expect the book's HOTU on the screen. The adaptation has taken too many detours and shortcuts for it to make sense to the non-book reader. I was fine with the GOT version -- although I wonder if the dragon fire trick will be used again when Dany accepts the tokar next season. It kind of loses its impact when used twice.