187 replies to this topic

[xythil]

The scene itself was GREAT..fit with the TV show great..well shot..ect.. but it was very different from the books.

I am more dissapointed with the Half-brain...err I mean Half-hand... Guy looked like a total chump this entire season.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

Javi Marcos, on 04 June 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

I wasn't expecting predictions (THIS IS TV, GUYS, NOT A BOOK, REALIZE IT) and I wasn't expecting Khal Drogo.

So I liked a lot the Throne scene (Snow and Fire)and Khal and Rakharo.

I always knew that the reality of adaptation would mean we would be getting a much different scene.

But I can't help but think that:

a)  Daenerys stands right before the Iron Throne.  There's no reason why her father couldn't be sitting it, delivering his doomsday line.  It would have redounded to the benefit of the desolation of that scene, and it bears directly on important character development next season.
  Not much of anything actually happens in the throne room.  It seems that it would have been inexpensive (both in terms of time and money) to add one or two other elements from the book to the scene, in passing.  For instance, as Daenerys crosses the throne room, she passes some extras with a cloth dragon.  Inexpensive practical effect.

Edited by Tumnas the Torpid, 04 June 2012 - 04:13 AM.

[Jayaris]

ThePickler, on 03 June 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

No one. But it would have been so easy to have Ned reference it at some point in season 1 or have Jorah mention it while telling Dany stories of her Rhaegar.

So you wanted them to re-write and re-air a Season 1 episode for Season 2?

Obviously Season 1 had already gone to Air by the time this was filmed.

[Gertrude]

Just realized that if they do decide to introduce the prophecy of threes via some other means (like Quaithe), Doreah could count as a betrayal and confuse matters. I'm assuming that anyway since we don't know what they are yet. I'm thinking that they probably won't even bother with those though.

[Oso]

Snow in the Red Keep = Jon Snow as king? D&D do know how everything ends.

[Ser Wun Wun]

The Drogo scene was nice, but I would have liked at least a few visions/prophecies.  They couldn't have let some ominous voice say "let him be king over cooked meat and charred bones" in the throne scene (I'm assuming that is what the throne room would have looked like if Jaime had not killed Aerys)?  They wouldn't even need an actor, just a voice booming in from nowhere would have been great.

They couldn't put a blue rose somewhere in the wall scene either?  Why was she even at the Wall if not to see the blue rose?  They gave us these beautiful settings with the throne room and the wall, and but didn't add any content to make her visit significant imo.  She was just walking through the places...

Edited by Ser Wun Wun, 04 June 2012 - 04:44 AM.

[xythil]

it woulda been perfct...

shes walking to the tent...bends down...plucks a single blue rose off the ground from her path....continues on



next season oberyn discusses with tyrion how his sister loved blue roses...


would have been perfect and cheap....

this oversight will bother me for a long time

[Gogossos]

The Dracarys scene fell flat to me. A few seconds extra they could've made it more dramatic: "Dracarys" a puff of smoke; "Dracarys" again, just a bit louder and a small fire and Pyat steps back; "Dracarys" again and Pyat's sleeve catches fire and the music roars and then finally "DRACARYS!" and the whole place catches fire. Then cut to Jorah outside and the whole place coming down and Dany appearing with her dragons.

The HOTU sequence made sort of sense. I think the first thing D&D did was ask George what was important and it's clear what message they wanted to get across. Jon is important to Dany, either as a relative or a future lover/husband - that's why their scenes are always juxtaposed with each other - and also that she will get to the Iron Throne but it'll be a ruined thing. Other things are either too spoilery (the RW has been too telegraphed as it is without HOTU references) or too complex (Rhaega's scene would totally throw off non-book viewers, who wouldn't want to find out the background without running into spoilers).

What they totally, totally failed to do was wink at us book fans. A flower at the Wall, a cloth dragon, etc. things that don't, and shouldn't, make much sense to a non-book viewer or alert them. That keeps both sides happy and it is this aspect that worries me about this year's adaptation. Things that book readers hold dear (weasel soup, anyone?) have been tossed out for no particular reason than "it's an adaptation people" and I find that annoying. I can understand adaptation problems (like shortening sequences, having no horses in certain scenes, changing dialogue or attributing it to someone else, etc) but changing character motivation (Cat and Robb being prime examples) for no discernible reason, I don't get that at all. The HOTU is pretty much Dany's only significant moment in this book or season and they have fluffed it. If the Blackwater battle was so important, then HOTU should've been as important and allowed to eat up half of the episode if necessary, with many of her scenes earlier in the season being cut. That's how you do an adaptation.

Edited by Gogossos, 04 June 2012 - 05:12 AM.

[The Butler of Tarth]

Show on the Iron Throne and Dany finding her Sun-and-Stars beyond the Wall. Subtle.

At that point Jon being a Targ, getting it on with Dany and becoming King is pretty much set, which makes me kind of sad because I hate the R+L with a passion.

Just to pile on the complaints about botching the most important scene of the second season (and book):
1. How hard it is to put a single blue rose in a scene? It could just be there beyond the Wall, lying on the ground and everybody would be happy.
2. The visions of the past and future: You don't need to build ten whole new sets and hire fifty actors for that. Just have Dany walk through a long corridor with doors on both sides - as she passes each door she sees a scene happening in there. We don't get to see anything but we can clearly hear stuff like "He's the song of Ice and Fire", "He'll be king of ash and ruins", "I looked for you on the Trident" and "Promise me Ned".

[Spidey]

Artemis, on 03 June 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I can't have been the only one that was pissed off about how the sequence of events unfolded at the House of the Undying in Quarth.

Besides the image of the Wall and the Iron Throne, did they even allude to the other prophecies/images presented in the book?

Why would they? Does a TV-Viewer know anything about the significance of a blue flower? No. Does he know about the Battle at the Trident and what happened there? No. Does he know about the prophecy about The Prince that was Promised? No.
Also, actually showing a bleeding Robb would have been way too blunt.
All of the background information needed for interpreting Dany's visions is completely absent on the show. There is absolutely no point in having her visions be the same as in the books.

Edited by Spidey, 04 June 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[ThePickler]

Jayaris, on 04 June 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

So you wanted them to re-write and re-air a Season 1 episode for Season 2? Obviously Season 1 had already gone to Air by the time this was filmed.

Are you trying to tell me that time has some sort of linear flow to it?

What I meant was that they could have effortlessly implemented it somewhere.

[Sphinx The Riddle]

i took away more hints for the end game and seeing her at the wall was a pretty god damn awesome.. the shows not the books.. things might change but the end game should be the same and there were a couple things to take away from seeing kings landing a mess filled with snow...

Edited by Sphinx The Riddle, 04 June 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[The Freshmaker]

I guess they the writers don't want to be bound to the prophecies. As a matter of fact the prophecies shown on tv were pretty straight forward compared to the books. Drogo and baby scene was such a fan-service... I love it!
The only thing I was disappointed with was Rhaegar... I thought HotU was the best time to introduce him *sigh* Maybe Barristan will tell more tales about him
... also the line "a song of ice and fire"... that was a bummer...
All the other prophecies... I was ok it wasn't shown. It can be confusing for the viewers and also Quaithe can add other prophecies later.

[Bride of Winter]

Massive disappointment. and it's not even like they just took her visions out - they went out of their way to change them. Once again the producers prove they couldn't give two shits about prophecies and theories, despite the fact thats essentially the backbone of the series.

[RedRum]

SerMixalot, on 03 June 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

oh and dany is now a common thief

ok

Her army was foraging.

[Bayard]

Actually I kind of enjoyed the HotU. From the moment I read the chapter I knew it was close to impossible to put on screen. And the prophecy part of the books, really is the thing I dislike the most. And to be clear, not prophecies like the Prince that was Promised, or AA, no, personal prophecies, like Cersei and the young queen, or the 3 to betray Dany, even the king with a wolf head ...  They took them out from the first season, so they were faithful to their concept of a show. I thought the way they used the chains was kind of weak, but the Dracarys part was beautiful!!

I was a lot more upset by the way they changed Jon's story... one that was extremely simple to put on screen, unlike the HotU.

[samrtk]

If they translated it as is in the book, they would have given away a lot of plot, and essentially spoiled certain scenes. Some things are only meant for the book. They could have done a lot more, and made it a lot more omnious sure, but there's room for that stuff next season. More content for Quaithe since they've set her up already. I actually loved the addition of Drogo, it was a great deviation imo, and fit perfectly into the show's HotU, which was basically ways to ensnare Dany into willfully staying put.

[erolyn]

Gertrude, on 04 June 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

Just realized that if they do decide to introduce the prophecy of threes via some other means (like Quaithe), Doreah could count as a betrayal and confuse matters. I'm assuming that anyway since we don't know what they are yet. I'm thinking that they probably won't even bother with those though.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. If they did still include the three betrayals, wouldn't that make Mirri Maz Duur "blood" and Doreah "gold" (because that seemed to be what Xaro was promising her)? So then Jorah's has to be "love"? Still not positive that that's what GRRM intended, especially since it seems like there's one more to come in the books. Was Missandei going to betray her so they just had Doreah do it instead? And what about Brown Ben Plumm (I could see them cutting him, I guess)?

So confused now.

[Spidey]

SerMixalot, on 03 June 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

oh and dany is now a common thief

ok

And next season she will break a contract. So what? I really don't get your point there.

[dreamcatcher]

The scene with the Wall and Drogo was great, it's just... Where's the rest? Where's EVERYTHING? They basically substituted all of the visions for some Drogo and a repeated prophecy. Not impressed.